Conversation with #inferno at Thu Mar 5 20:47:47 2009 on powerman-asdf@irc.freenode.net (irc) (21:13:13) jmpnz [n=mennis@adsl-068-016-104-079.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] entered the room. (21:22:26) Fish left the room (quit: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). (21:22:45) Fish [n=Fish@ASte-Genev-Bois-151-1-60-74.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr] entered the room. (21:42:37) newmanbe [n=btdn@138.74.131.25] entered the room. (23:29:59) jmpnz left the room (quit: Client Quit). (23:46:43) Fish left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection). (23:47:43) mennis [n=mennis@adsl-224-198-238.asm.bellsouth.net] entered the room. (00:17:57) mennis left the room (quit: Client Quit). (00:44:43) newmanbe left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). (01:24:53) KillerX [n=anant@gentoo/developer/KillerX] entered the room. (01:56:34) KillerX left the room (quit: ). (03:18:13) newmanbe [n=btdn@138.74.131.25] entered the room. 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(08:10:22) acmeuser [n=acmeuser@porkchop.cofa.unsw.edu.au] entered the room. (08:11:49) acmeuser: hmm... (08:12:12) newmanbe: ? (08:12:21) acmeuser: oh.. (08:12:28) acmeuser: someone here ? (08:12:29) anothy_x: ¿ (08:12:46) acmeuser: kewl bananas.. (08:12:48) anothy_x: ‽ (08:13:01) anothy_x: i really need to start using that one more. (08:13:17) acmeuser: I have a newby question.. (08:13:21) newmanbe: I like interobangs. (08:13:28) newmanbe: Yes? (08:13:30) acmeuser: about inferno.. (08:13:47) anothy_x: you're in acme-sac, i take it? (08:13:52) acmeuser: How do I get to the host os ? (08:13:59) acmeuser: Yeppers :) (08:14:10) olegfink: anothy_x: by the way, hex-rays produces excellent code. without any genetic programming! :-) (08:14:11) anothy_x: the most common way is with the os(1) command. (08:14:23) acmeuser: I'm running it on OSX.. it rocks.. (08:14:33) anothy_x: yeah, those guys have done a very nice job. (08:15:14) anothy_x: so, anyway, you can execute "os uname" and get "Darwin" back. (08:15:30) anothy_x: cmd(3) is the underlying interface, if you want to make more programatic use of it. (08:19:51) underspecified [n=eric@isa7-dhcp-116-127.naist.jp] entered the room. (08:19:52) acmeuser left the room. (08:20:32) acmeuser [n=acmeuser@porkchop.cofa.unsw.edu.au] entered the room. (08:22:38) acmeuser left the room. (08:22:57) acmeuser [n=acmeuser@porkchop.cofa.unsw.edu.au] entered the room. (08:23:12) acmeuser: working now ? (08:23:16) acmeuser: hmm.. (08:23:33) anothy_x: well, we see you, if that's what your'e after. (08:23:35) acmeuser: strange.. (08:23:50) acmeuser: when I switched windows.. (08:23:59) acmeuser: I lost the session.. (08:24:21) acmeuser: or perhaps I just don't know how to get the focus back.. (08:24:24) anothy_x: switched OS X windows? (08:24:31) anothy_x: focus follows mouse. (08:24:42) acmeuser: cme windows. (08:24:48) acmeuser: acme (08:24:53) acmeuser: yeah.. (08:26:07) acmeuser: still getting used to it.. (08:26:26) acmeuser: reminds me of the old apollo hpux days.. (08:26:27) anothy_x: it takes some time; it's quite different from almost everything else out there. (08:26:39) anothy_x: i've never used one of those myself. (08:27:12) acmeuser: they were sweeet... (08:28:08) acmeuser: what else is inferno used for ? (08:28:55) anothy_x: it's used for something with the BlueGene project, but i'm not exactly sure what. monitoring, i think. (08:29:18) anothy_x: it's light on commercial applications. Lucent used to sell a firewall based on it, but i think that was recently discontinued. (08:29:27) anothy_x: it's been in a bunch of embeddeed things, but none "took". (08:35:55) acmeuser: interesting (08:38:31) acmeuser: I got it working full screen :) (08:40:29) anothy_x: what version of OS X are you on? do you use Spaces? (08:41:01) anothy_x: i find it useful to keep a full-screen Acme (usually via a plan 9 connection, but the idea's the same) on one of my Spaces. (08:42:05) acmeuser: Yup, 10.5.6.. and spaces.. (08:45:01) acmeuser: hello ? (08:45:04) acmeuser: oh.. (08:45:13) acmeuser: thought I'd lost it again.. (08:45:31) acmeuser: yup windoblows in one.. acme in one.. XCode in another.. (08:45:32) anothy_x: nope, still here. (08:45:54) acmeuser: some things dont like spaces though.. (08:46:23) acmeuser: inferno seems really fast.. (08:46:27) anothy_x: true, but i think the inferno family of programs are okay. i've had good luck with them, anyway. (08:46:29) acmeuser: most impressive.. (08:46:52) anothy_x: it is. the VM is very snappy, and it's helped even more by the fact that it's got so little extra crap going on. (08:47:24) acmeuser: what's it written in ? (08:47:29) anothy_x: C (08:47:55) anothy_x: well, the VM, devices, and so on. all the user-mode stuff, including acme itself, is written in Limbo (08:47:59) anothy_x: (which is *lovely*) (08:49:11) acmeuser: is it likely that it will be ported to cocoa rather than carbon ? (08:49:40) anothy_x: there's been some talk about it, but it's not a priority. (08:49:58) anothy_x: if it's something you'd be interested in, i'm sure they'd appreciate the help. (08:50:20) acmeuser: it is.. (08:50:33) acmeuser: but I'm only just getting my feet wet with cocoa programming.. (08:50:49) anothy_x: IIRC, underspecified did most of the OS X-specific work for acme-sac. (08:51:03) acmeuser: it will be a while before I understand alot of the frameworks.. (08:51:23) anothy_x: there's a guy jeff sicle (almost certainly spelling that wrong) who's done a lot of OS X work for inferno and related programs in the past, too. (08:51:34) anothy_x: well, it'll wait for you. ;-) (08:51:44) acmeuser: hehe.. (08:52:21) acmeuser: I'm realy keen to use and customise acme for ruby coding.. (08:52:34) underspecified: hey guys (08:52:34) acmeuser: I will start there.. (08:52:43) anothy_x: yeah, him. :-) (08:52:50) acmeuser: hi underspecified.. (08:52:52) underspecified: i made some contributions to the gui and did the packaging (08:53:02) underspecified: but most of the code is from russ cox (08:53:23) underspecified: i'd also like to do a cocoa port, but i need to learn more objective c :\ (08:53:34) acmeuser: hehe.. (08:53:40) acmeuser: like to try it in ruby ? (08:53:46) underspecified: not really (08:53:54) underspecified: better to keep the dependencies low (08:54:17) anothy_x: it really is written like an OS kernel. (08:54:40) underspecified: yup (08:54:53) acmeuser: well.. ultimately to learn ruby I will have to understand the objective c frameworks anyway.. (08:54:56) acmeuser: :( (08:55:03) underspecified: ? (08:55:15) underspecified: what does learning ruby have to do with obj-c? (08:55:23) underspecified: you want to do os-x GUI development? (08:55:54) acmeuser: yah.. I've been trying to get my head wrapped around ruby-cocoa.. (08:56:01) underspecified: ah (08:56:11) acmeuser: hasn't exploded... yet.. (08:56:28) underspecified: it might be better to explore them independently before combining (08:56:43) acmeuser: yes, I think you're right.. (08:57:12) acmeuser: send myself of to cocoa elementary.. (08:57:15) acmeuser: :) (08:57:39) underspecified: but if you are interested in helping support development in acme, people would probably appreciate that (08:57:54) acmeuser: is there a ruby mode ? (08:58:08) underspecified: acme doesn't have "modes" like emacs (08:58:12) acmeuser: and highlighting ? (08:58:19) underspecified: it just has text and text selection rules (08:58:55) underspecified: the text selection is largely designed to handle c/shell/limbo stuff (08:58:58) anothy_x: the quote/paren/etc matching gives me pretty much everything i've ever wanted from "syntax aware" editors. (08:59:13) underspecified: it works well for those languages (08:59:26) underspecified: but users of, say, python or lisp/scheme might have problems (08:59:38) underspecified: it's also not ideal for natural language (09:00:08) acmeuser: hmm.. I like lisp too.. (09:00:57) anothy_x: the paren matching works well, until you get the "cumulative closures" or whatever they're called. (09:01:03) underspecified: fixing that while maintaining the acme philosophy of no cruft code, config files, etc. would be a challenge (09:01:12) underspecified: anothy: yeah (09:01:14) anothy_x: which i gather aren't in all dialects? dunno. i've only done a little. (09:01:35) underspecified: also lisp maniacs love tree manipulation shortcuts (09:01:49) underspecified: balanced parens, etc