Conversation with #inferno at Mon Apr 27 17:22:22 2009 on powerman-asdf@irc.freenode.net (irc)
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(19:59:37) olegfink: was there an inferno distribution compiled for windows ce?
(20:08:24) anothy_x1: i've not heard of such a thing.
(20:12:25) olegfink: :-(
(20:12:31) olegfink: I want QUONG
(20:13:59) anothy_x1: is that one of those keyboard thingies?
(20:14:09) mjl-: caerwyn wrote something for taht
(20:14:10) mjl-: that*
(20:14:17) mjl-: but for mux/prefab or so.  not tk
(20:14:24) mjl-: it's on the inferno programmers notebook
(20:14:34) mjl-: it was for on the nintendo ds
(20:15:15) sqweek: anothy_x1: yep, see http://www.strout.net/info/ideas/hexinput.html
(20:18:12) olegfink: windows ce is absolutely unusable, so maybe inferno will change that a bit
(20:20:18) soul9: :)
(20:20:27) sqweek: i don't find stock inferno very usable without three mouse buttons
(20:24:38) mjl-: are you implying you have a non-stock inferno that is usable without three mouse buttons? :)
(20:25:19) sqweek: afraid not :)
(20:25:27) sqweek: but i've never looked into the mux stuff at all
(20:25:59) mjl-: me neither.  it seems to be somewhere, but not very documented.
(20:56:54) mjl-: haha, just read this on an openbsd mailing list:
(20:56:57) mjl-: I noticed when making a patch for something I'm porting which includes
(20:56:57) mjl-: escape sequences for colours in the source code (stop sniggering at the
(20:56:57) mjl-: back...) [...]
(20:57:38) anothy_x1: er, what?
(20:57:47) mjl-: with a patch against diff to run function names through strnvis
(20:58:08) mjl-: i find it pretty funny that people put escape sequences in source code to get colors on a terminal :)
(20:58:08) anothy_x1: oh god.
(20:58:22) mjl-: but the solution is fun too :)
(20:58:29) anothy_x1: rm?
(20:58:54) mjl-: strnvis everywhere!
(20:59:33) anothy_x1: i'm dismayed to find that's a bsd list. i thought that mentality was mostly confined to linux.
(20:59:39) anothy_x1: wishful thinking, i guess.
(21:00:07) mjl-: i'm a bit disappointed with that patch too.  i'm waiting for someone to mention it's a bad idea.
(21:00:31) anothy_x1: let me make sure i'm understanding this properly:
(21:00:54) anothy_x1: they put editor escape sequences into their source code to colorize the source while editing it?
(21:01:24) mjl-: not openbsd people.  some guy using openbsd is porting external software that had that.
(21:01:58) mjl-: but now he proposes a patch to openbsd diff to filter escape sequences from the output of diff (only the function names), using strnvis
(21:02:08) mjl-: openbsd's diff*
(21:02:18) anothy_x1: how does one compile such a program? presumably the escape sequences aren't valid C.
(21:02:32) C-Keen: mjl-: which list?
(21:02:37) mjl-: i have no idea.  perhaps it's in the comments
(21:02:40) mjl-: C-Keen: tech@
(21:02:44) C-Keen: mjl-: omg
(21:03:14) C-Keen: this should be stripped
(21:03:27) anothy_x1: i still say the right patch is rm.
(21:03:30) C-Keen: remember the exploit against enlightenment terminals?
(21:03:42) mjl-: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=124059085222488&w=2
(21:03:49) mjl-: C-Keen: nopes, what was it?
(21:03:59) mjl-: i think terminals should be stripped
(21:04:10) C-Keen: where an attaker managed to get escape sequences in log files and anyone that did tail -f on an eterm executed arbitrary code
(21:04:52) anothy_x1: i want a version of 9term or rio's terminal that detects word boundaries and arbitrarially clorizes words.
(21:05:04) mjl-: i hope that was due to a bug in eterm, e.g. a buffer overflow in escape sequence handling?  and not that there is actually an escape sequence for executing a command :)
(21:05:22) olegfink: anothy_x1: I once had a syntax colorer for english
(21:05:36) C-Keen: mjl-: yes it was a bug in eterm
(21:06:00) mjl-: ah, too bad then.  don't run c code!
(21:06:03) anothy_x1 is now known as anothy_x
(21:06:18) mjl-: lots of c programs have bugs that can be turned into running arbitrary code...
(21:07:45) anothy_x: i still just can't believe i'm reading this right. the source code has the escape sequences in it? syntax highlighting in the editor isn't enough? is this on purpose? does this happen often?
(21:08:13) mjl-: i hadn't heard of it before
(21:08:19) C-Keen: anothy_x: beats me, who wants all that crap in there. Besides that it will cause headaches with a lot of tools anyway
(21:09:12) anothy_x: C-Keen: not if you make them all use strnvis! :-(
(21:09:31) anothy_x: and hold on, let's back up a step:
(21:09:39) anothy_x: bsd's diff knows about *functions*?
(21:10:55) anothy_x: this isn't, like, a special c-specific tool, but diff. right? the patch looks like that to me.
(21:10:59) C-Keen: anothy_x: it tries to print the function name under some conditions at the top so people know what to look for. Yes this is violating the general tool rule
(21:11:02) anothy_x: doesn't diff just, y'know, find differences?
(21:11:39) C-Keen: :q
(21:12:33) anothy_x: i feel like charlton heston
(21:12:53) anothy_x: you maniacs! you blew it up! ah, damn you! god damn you all to hell!
(21:13:02) C-Keen: hehe
(21:18:05) olegfink: anthony, I'm in ur comp.lang.apl reading on k/j history
(21:19:01) anothy_x: uh-huh?
(21:19:33) C-Keen: olegfink: you know of http://www.nsl.com ?
(21:19:38) olegfink: sure.
(21:19:47) C-Keen: alright :)
(21:20:18) olegfink: anothy_x: was just a way to note that I was a bit suprisde to come over http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.apl/msg/8e9e2bf57656666e
(21:22:31) anothy_x: oh, yeah. that's me.
(21:23:08) anothy_x: i have a fascination with apl. i still want to someday update kens' (our ken) apl to work on plan9.
(21:23:18) anothy_x: i really want one that handles the proper unicode characters.
(21:28:36) anothy_x: the book i was reading when i made those posts is still literally 10 feet away (was 1 foot away until friday, when i put it back on the shelf).
(21:28:44) anothy_x: someday.
(21:29:01) anothy_x: i can't come up with anything even plausibly work related to prompt me to stay focused on it, though.
(21:29:11) anothy_x: so for this month, it's Objective C.
(21:29:24) anothy_x: one weird language at a time.
(21:29:28) C-Keen: could be worse
(21:29:50) anothy_x: i started last week. i'm actually kinda liking it.
(21:30:10) anothy_x: i haven't gotten into the library much yet, which is where lots of languages fall apart.
(21:30:23) anothy_x: but the core language seems pretty good. worlds better than c++, that's for sure.
(21:30:45) C-Keen: that's not too difficult
(21:30:59) C-Keen: but I like the way they handle message passing and objects
(21:31:10) C-Keen: very not c++ like
(21:33:35) olegfink: anothy_x: for me, apl is too irrational. k is very nice, though it isn't really apl, more like interpreted c with lisp lists.
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(22:47:49) anothy_x: i don't really see apl as being irrational in any meaningful way. it's entirely rational, in that it's logically consistent, pretty regular, and so on.
(22:47:58) anothy_x: it's just totally freakin' bizarre.
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