Conversation with #inferno at Mon Jul 20 02:40:59 2009 on powerman-asdf@irc.freenode.net (irc)
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(11:20:24) mjl-: i wonder if anyone has written something like vi(1) in plan 9 for inferno.  or just ported it.
(11:20:45) mjl-: when working on plan 9 binaries, it shouldn't be too hard to run binaries.
(11:21:16) mjl-: which would make the compilers run on native inferno, and get you close to a full development environment on native inferno
(11:22:06) mjl-: just saw nestedvm, which runs mips binaries on jvm
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(11:47:54) gualteri_: dunno if that's what you're after, but one could make use of dynld(3) to load an a.out into a inferno kernel
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(11:48:17) gualteri: and morning :)
(11:49:34) mjl-: morning :)
(11:50:36) mjl-: gualteri: yeah, that might work.  though you will still need to provide hooks (rfork etc, more if you go for posix binaries).  but more importantly:  if the programs crashes your kernel will likely too.  and the program has full access.
(11:50:57) mjl-: i have been wondering whether inferno procs can have their own memory protection
(11:51:16) mjl-: would make sense for libraries in c, especially if you don't really trust them
(11:52:06) gualteri: memory protection of inferno procs is performed at the dis instruction level
(11:52:30) gualteri: but i guess specific ports can take advantage of mmu
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(11:58:44) mjl-: gualteri: dis is safe yes, that's why a vi(1) in limbo made most sense.  or perhaps a p9mips->dis translator or something
(11:58:44) mjl-: but well, crazy dreams, perhaps for the future.
(11:59:07) gualteri: not too crazy, i hadn't thought about that before: dynld(3) could be used to load plan9's madplay decoder and have mp3 audio
(12:00:42) mjl-: yeah, loading libraries is a good way to get functionality fast.
(12:01:21) mjl-: though i wouldn't want to clutter the system with unprotected c/binary code
(12:32:32) uriel: the vx32+inferno setup caerwyin came up with was quite neat
(12:33:08) uriel: i guess it would require quite a bit of work to make it useful in native inferno, but seems feasible
(12:41:51) mjl-: doesn't vx32 only run on x86?
(12:42:06) mjl-: i thought it worked mostly through segment register tricks
(12:42:38) mjl-: which makes me wonder:  will it work with amd64?  i think it has fewer segment registers
(12:42:43) mjl-: but i'm probably totally off :)
(12:42:56) mjl-: anyway, mips seems to be the isa that's easiest to decode.
(12:43:02) mjl-: perhaps thumb is easier
(12:43:09) uriel: yes, but everyone knows that this days, the world is an x86 ;P
(12:43:18) uriel: you are not off at all
(12:43:40) mjl-: or perhaps with fewer instructions.  or perhaps mips' branch/load delay slots need more code to implement
(12:43:46) uriel: althought the google's native-client people say they plan to port something like vx32 to arm, no clue how
(12:44:16) mjl-: hmm, interesting.  will they not just translate the instructions?
(12:44:47) uriel: I think caerwyn or somebody else was also looking into some kind of 'binary-emulation' (ala vi(1) for inferno), wish my memory was not shit :(
(12:44:55) uriel: I have no clue what they plan to do
(12:45:22) uriel: but vx32 does traslate instructions even in x86, but the transformations are simpler than maping x86 arm I guess
(12:46:12) uriel: (as I understand it, vx32 tries to implement the same kind of safety restrictions Dis implements for dis bytcode, of course it is more tricky because x86 was not designed for it..)
(12:46:40) uriel: so it has to translate 'unsafe' ops into 'safe' equivalents, and so on
(12:50:08) mjl-: i'll go read a paper on vx32
(12:50:23) mjl-: i was just allocating a good part of the day to reading about vm's anyway
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(17:33:23) sea-gull: Hi, can anybody explain why limbo compains about ref Rmsg.Remove(m.tag, array[1] of Sys->Qid)? 
(17:34:32) sea-gull: it says that it can't create Rmsg.Remove from (m.tag, array[1] of Sys->Qid).
(17:35:34) sea-gull: never mind, I found my error :)
(17:46:11) maht: array[1] of ref Sys->Qid by any chance :)
(17:49:33) maht: now I have the venti interrupt storm as fossil writes the full fs 
(17:56:22) maht: oops wrong ch
(18:01:46) mjl-: any netbsd users here?
(18:04:01) sqweek: yep
(18:04:52) mjl-: good, i have a question :)
(18:04:59) mjl-: inferno uses /usr/X11R6 in its mkfiles
(18:05:05) mjl-: i just installed netbsd5
(18:05:06) mjl-: .0
(18:05:12) mjl-: which only use a useful /usr/X11R7
(18:05:21) mjl-: do you know if netbsd has a mechanism that lets you select the right one?
(18:05:34) mjl-: (i'm guessing they use pre-xorg x11 for some archs)
(18:05:46) sqweek: hm, dunno
(18:06:01) sqweek: i'm still on netbsd4, don't have /usr/X11R6
(18:06:58) mjl-: my netbsd5 only has the dirs /usr/X11R6, but no headers or libs in them
(18:07:05) mjl-: i'll ask on #netbsd later
(18:07:05) mjl-: thanks
(18:07:11) sqweek: er, i mean i only have /usr/X11R6, no /usr/X11R7
(18:07:21) mjl-: (i'm going to test if ipv6 works with the code for linux)
(18:09:15) mjl-: besides, my xorg doesn't seem to work on my intel video card :P
(18:12:10) mjl-: the solution is probably to look for headers & libs in both places.
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(20:01:26) mjl-: so, the ipv6 works on netbsd too.  with some fixes.
(20:01:30) mjl-: next on the list is freebsd
(20:27:15) uriel: mjl-: very cool
(20:35:50) mjl-: it really sucks that openbsd doesn't do this type of ipv6... the ipv6 support will still be useful, but a bit less (until i switch to another OS on desktop!)
(20:36:04) mjl-: it seems windows xp doesn't support this type of ipv6 either
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(16:59:21) mjl-: i built an emu on windows 7, with ipv6 support
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(20:05:04) maht: hehe nice 1
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