Conversation with #inferno at Tue Dec 29 10:51:19 2009 on powerman-asdf@irc.freenode.net (irc)
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(00:03:41) dagle is now known as saddam
(00:04:02) saddam is now known as dagle
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(07:03:07) robot12: Happy New Year !
(07:03:08) robot12: :)
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(03:42:30) dagle: mount new_year /dev/date 
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(10:37:27) EthanG: dagle: :)
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(12:07:35) j123m_: join #cat-v
(12:07:51) j123m_: oops
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(17:01:10) rs0768: ciao
(17:01:20) EthanG: hallo
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(01:41:07) hagna: hrm no such file lib9.h when running makemk.sh
(01:41:13) hagna: why is that?
(01:56:09) mjl-: perhaps wrong mkconfig?
(01:56:59) mjl-: eg missing (or commented out) OBJTYPE=386
(02:03:05) hagna: nope it's there, but yep the 386 is missing
(02:05:03) hagna: ahh found it OBJTYPE=$objtype
(02:05:08) hagna: that's in the latest hg
(02:05:12) hagna: weird
(02:05:36) hagna: oh wait or not
(02:12:24) mjl-: yeah, it has OBJTYPE=$objtype by default i think.  that works on plan 9, where objtype is set
(02:15:24) dagle: The manual says nothing about 64bit but is it possible to build against 64bit system?
(02:20:48) mjl-: nopes
(02:20:57) mjl-: on linux you can build with 32bit compat
(02:33:17) dagle: Ok.
(02:33:37) dagle: I was hoping there just was no binaries.
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(15:33:03) yarikos: hello
(15:33:24) yarikos: how to pull inferno-os source under plan9? is there a SVN port?
(15:49:57) mycroftiv: yarikos: I always end up pulling the current source to a *nix system and making a .tgz that i copy over via drawterm, I understand thats hardly a real plan 9 method
(15:51:38) mycroftiv: yarikos: looking in contrib index, i see someone has made a specific tool for it: contrib/gabidiaz/gsvn
(15:53:09) yarikos: mycroftiv: have looked over the tool. i'll give it a try, thanks.
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(16:14:49) yarikos: mycroftiv: that's tricky rc(1) script which uses hget+htmlfmt+awk+sed recursively
(16:17:58) yarikos: oups... i missed they switched to mercurial. the question is closed.
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(16:21:35) yarikos: correction: bind -a ...
(16:24:13) yarikos: drawterm exports local tree just to its session. you (and other developers) may need to srvfs(4) to publish your /mnt/term/... to others.
(16:26:36) mycroftiv: yarikos: yes - i use a script and a custom namespace file so I can srvfs my drawterm devices and keep them attached even if i use auth/newns to switch to a different root for my namespace
(16:27:35) yarikos: oups again... wrong channel ☺
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(17:46:26) venkatesh: hi #inferno
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(17:50:15) mycroftiv: helo
(17:52:43) uriel: what on earth would make anyone think inferno uses svn?
(17:53:34) venkatesh: it used to?
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(18:56:43) venkatesh: i'm trying 'cat <file> | emu /dis/cat.dis' in unix. is there any way to get inferno to exit when the catting is complete?
(19:01:11) mycroftiv: sounds like its related to that issue about posting notes when EOF on a pipe?
(19:01:30) mycroftiv: ive seen some discussion about that on 9fans as general discussion of how thing should work
(19:01:35) mycroftiv: not sure how emu handles it though
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(20:54:57) me__: i seem to remember someone did a hosted inferno framebuffer driver; anyone remember if that's true?
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(21:43:50) EthanG: me__: I remember the same
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(22:47:42) me__: anyone know where its hiding? i have a system on which i don't want to load X, but i want a browser and a gui editor
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(18:18:42) me__: could someone take a look at emu/port/exportfs.c:exportproc()? 
(18:19:08) me__: exportproc doesn't call smalloc and instead tries malloc() a bunch of times, according to th comment to avoid memset
(18:19:16) me__: it then memsets right after?
(18:19:28) mycroftiv: me__: i can look at it, i may not have any blinding insights though
(18:20:27) olegfink: me__: http://archive.netbsd.se/?ml=Inferno-discussion&a=2006-08&m=2264059 ?
(18:22:13) me__: olegfink: thanks!
(18:22:53) olegfink: though I recall I had a hard time building it.
(18:23:12) mycroftiv: me__: without studying it in any detail at all, isnt the idea that it doesnt memset inside the loop, it memsets afterward so it only calls it once rather than multiple times?
(18:23:30) me__: sure, but smalloc() memsets only if it gets the memory
(18:23:58) me__: the loop appears to be the core of smalloc(), plopped down right here
(18:24:23) mycroftiv: oh i see, its a waiting loop only really, right?
(18:25:52) me__: yes
(18:27:11) mycroftiv: well, that shoots that initial hypothesis, doesnt make much sense to me either 
(18:27:45) mycroftiv: do you think there is a problem concealed there, or does it just seem eccentric?
(18:28:22) mycroftiv: is the fact that it aborts prior to the memset significant, in relation to the smalloc behavior?
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(21:16:25) me__: hmm. in osleave() in emu/port/proc.c, why is the up->sysio lock taken to set up->syscall = 0? (its not taken in osenter...)
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(05:55:01) me__: hmm, there're a few c stdlib function i'm missing atm in limbo... memcmp, memchr, and the like...
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(15:26:44) me__: anyone around here work on inferno-npe?
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(15:34:11) yarikos: __me: it still doesn't have something to load a VGA mode, does it?
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(15:41:42) me__: yarikos: blstuart released code to do vga mode (320x240 and 640x480) in native inferno, it could be merged there...
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(13:59:07) mjl-: me__: haven't done much with inferno-npe yet.  i wanted to
(13:59:10) mjl-: but i've been slacking
(13:59:16) mjl-: time to pick up today
(13:59:41) mjl-: i've tried blstuarts iso btw, worked quite okay.  though i think i couldn't drag windows around or something.  and didn't have (intel) ethernet
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(18:52:42) me__: mjl-: i have early work on a new allocator nearly working, wanted to know if i could stage it there :D
(18:53:21) me__: also a tiny other patch to have incref/decref not take locks on i386 (use XADD)
(18:55:24) me__: would -npe be the right place to try stuff like that?
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(16:51:08) mjl-: me__: inferno-npe is a good place to put it
(16:51:35) mjl-: though perhaps it is easier to keep it as close to inferno-os as possible
(16:51:39) mjl-: inferno-npe has some other patches
(16:52:22) mjl-: so if you want inferno-os users to try the new patch, i think it makes sense to make sure there is as little possible change between the code...
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(18:27:28) me__: mjl-: okay, awesome. how can i send you folks patches for it? is there any place where the patches are discussed/reviewed?
(18:33:55) mjl-: there is no place of review/discussion.. other than irc ;)
(18:33:59) mjl-: i can add you to the list of committers
(18:34:04) mjl-: then you can make a new branch with your changes
(18:34:20) mjl-: i'll add you
(18:36:13) mjl-: me__: do you have a google account?
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(18:55:05) me__: mjl-: okay, 'extrudedaluminiu'
(18:55:42) me__: (i was hoping for someplace list 'hey, here's my patch. iono if this is a good idea, comments?'; would inferno-list be a good place for that?)
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(19:18:24) mjl-: yeah, inferno-list is a good place for that
(19:18:52) mjl-: eg blstuart has a inferno-bls as project, with the files in it, and links to it in inferno-list
(19:21:16) mjl-: me__: you're on the list of committers for inferno-npe now
(19:22:24) mjl-: you could put fixes directly in the tree, and i think really bigger features/changes could be done in a separate branch, and then perhaps merged when it is finished
(19:37:23) me__: okay, thanks!
(19:51:52) me__: mjl-: would it be okay for me to sync up inferno-npe with the changes from inferno-os in the past few months?
(19:52:25) me__: also, there is a patch in the issue tracker, support for Dragonfly BSD; could i merge that?
(19:53:03) mjl-: yes, sounds like a good plan
(19:53:16) mjl-: i don't know from the top of my head what the layout was, with branches
(19:53:35) mjl-: i think there is a branch (probably unnamed) that is just inferno-os
(19:54:20) mjl-: and after updating that, i would update the main branch (with inferno-npe-specific changes), merging inferno-os in
(20:01:54) me__: cool, thanks.
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(21:36:40) mjl-: http://www.ueber.net/who/mjl/tmp/emuinit-itar.html
(21:37:01) mjl-: the text describes it:  make emuinit understand package files that it executes from command line
(21:38:32) mjl-: and updated slightly
(21:38:39) mjl-: the html file...
(21:38:55) mjl-: just an idea, to make it easier to package up inferno apps and run them easily
(21:39:12) mjl-: you can put in as many libs/files as you want, and set up the namespace through the init script.
(21:39:39) mjl-: something like this only works if it everyone has it (i.e. gets into mainline inferno)
(21:40:10) me__: cool, it looks kinda neat (particularly for packaging inferno apps)
(21:47:48) mjl-: hmm, i think it doesn't work on windows when associating emu with the .itar extension
(21:47:56) mjl-: and that was one of the driving forces :)
(21:47:59) mjl-: have to do more testing
(21:48:29) mjl-: other problems are: tarfs on inferno isn't really great.  eg it breaks on .tar files that have files in subdirs for with the dirs haven't been specified in the .tar file explicitly yet
(21:49:12) mjl-: plus, a tool to run a command in a ui (blobslay) and that closes the display afterwards would be good.  but perhaps it already exists.
(21:52:02) me__: mjl-: kfs works a bit better, perhaps using that would be okay for now?
(21:59:59) mjl-: myeah, i like it being tar files, every os has tools to make those
(22:00:06) mjl-: i'll fix tarfs :)
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(00:10:54) me__: mjl-: did your vacfs fix ever make it to inferno-os or inferno-npe?
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(11:23:50) mjl-: me__: i don't know.  i have a feeling it didn't get it
(11:23:52) mjl-: morning all btw
(11:24:00) mjl-: coffee!
(13:04:55) mjl-: trying to find the ms cl compiler option to set an icon for the emu.exe...
(13:05:07) mjl-: why can i not find how to do it!
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(13:37:01) maht: because it probably changes with each cl version number :>
(13:48:48) mjl-: yeah...
(13:48:55) mjl-: after lunch now.  i'm getting closer
(13:49:04) mjl-: i need to use nt.rc, that's already there.  but it isn't used now
(13:49:06) mjl-: link.exe is the linker
(13:49:44) mjl-: searching on the web is useless.  i only get results "click on x->y then z and select an icon"...
(13:50:28) mjl-: i cannot even start visual studio that i have installed, i need to register first to get a key
(13:50:37) mjl-: but cl.exe works just fine
(13:50:40) mjl-: good stuff
(14:16:07) mjl-: hah, i got it
(14:16:11) mjl-: resource files
(14:16:16) mjl-: rc.exe, the resource compiler
(14:16:19) mjl-: includes an icon
(14:37:48) robot12: m$ - sux :)
(14:38:29) robot12: why icons are stored in exe ? 
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(15:49:17) mjl-: i bet windows can store icons in registries and such too ;)
(15:49:32) mjl-: testing icons is fun too.  explorer caches them.  i've resorted to killing explorer.exe to flush the cache
(15:49:38) mjl-: but i've got the icons done now, that helps
(15:49:48) mjl-: me__: good to see dragonflybsd support
(15:55:43) me__: :D
(15:59:28) me__: i'm hoping to see that in inferno-os at some point, it'd be pretty neat...
(16:43:11) me__: mjl-: i'd like to commit an hgignore that ignores .dis, .sbl, .o, and .a files and mk nuke all the dis files in the tree. would that be alright?
(16:43:39) mjl-: yeah, good plan
(16:44:11) mjl-: i've got a private .hgignore file now, but i think most people will find one useful
(16:44:17) mjl-: i've got .5 and .8 files in there too
(16:44:18) mjl-: and o.out
(16:44:37) mjl-: and these (not sure how useful they are):
(16:44:38) mjl-: OpenBSD/386/bin/*
(16:44:38) mjl-: OpenBSD/386/lib/*
(16:44:38) mjl-: y.debug
(16:44:38) mjl-: y.tab.c
(16:44:38) mjl-: y.tab.h
(16:44:39) mjl-: tmp/*
(16:44:44) mjl-: syntax: re
(16:44:44) mjl-: fonts/.*/.*
(16:44:50) me__: ok, i'll add those as well. (and the generated binaries in <os>/<arch>/bin)
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(21:47:56) less1: Hi, I am trying print some debugging messages from inferno kernel... something like kprintf for linux.. can someone guide me in printing such debug messages and viewing them.
(21:55:49) mjl-: print("test\n");
(21:55:59) mjl-: you might want to set consoleprint=1 in the kernel config
(21:56:19) mjl-: $ grep consoleprint os/pc/pc
(21:56:19) mjl-:         int consoleprint=1;
(21:59:47) less1: mjl-: I used print, but message was not coming on console... I am trying now with setting consoleprint=1.
(21:59:58) less1: I will let you know if it works.
(22:11:10) less1: mjl-: It did not worked for me... print messages that I had added to emu/port/devcmd.c   even after binding this filesystem with bind command.
(22:11:26) less1: do I need to do something else also for seeing these print messages.
(22:11:54) less1: let me know if there is any other way of debuggung inferno.
(22:31:09) mjl-: are you compiling an emu or a kernel that runs on bare hardware?
(22:31:32) less1: mjl-: emu that will run on linux host
(22:31:41) mjl-: ok, then consoleprint is not of any use
(22:32:07) mjl-: are you sure that code is executed?  you could put in an abort() and retry
(22:32:25) mjl-: to make sure that code is really executed.  print() should just work
(22:32:54) mjl-: or perhaps you're not running the emu you think you are?  that has cost me enough time in the past :)
(22:32:54) less1: mjl-: will abort terminate the emu??
(22:32:56) mjl-: yes
(22:33:11) ***less1 tries abort now
(22:33:12) mjl-: showing that your code is reached.  then you can replace it with the print
(22:47:19) less1: mjl-: Thanks for help.   I just figured out that I have wasted whole day by executing wrong emu all the time. :-/
(22:47:27) ***less1 has learned a lesson.
(23:34:24) me__: have any of you ever gotten gprof working with emu?
(00:01:26) me__: also, wow, i have some good numbers! 
(00:02:03) me__: but its a tragedy that each emu/<os>/* all exist, i need to now patch a whole bunch of OSes with the same thing...
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(02:52:17) me__: hi again #inferno
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(05:06:44) Capso: hey
(05:08:34) Capso: mjl-: uriel told me something about you fixing the excessive CPU usage by inferno when moving the mouse over it? something related to some garbage collection gone wrong? does the fix extend to inferno on Plan 9? has it been applied to the main inferno repo
(05:08:34) Capso: ?
(05:08:45) Capso: if so, then I'd be happy to grab it :D
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(10:54:15) mjl-: good day all
(10:54:39) mjl-: me__: haven't tried gprof, i bet it won't work easily out of the box? :)
(10:55:00) mjl-: and, what are the good numbers about?  new allocator and/or locking changes i suppose?
(10:55:15) mjl-: Capso: yeah, i've reduced cpu usage for things like moving the mouse
(10:55:43) mjl-: by making limiting the number of times the garbage collector is run when emu is idle (function "execatidle()")
(10:56:18) mjl-: for mouse/key events, emu runs a little bit of dis code, then is idle and does a gc run walking through all the memory
(10:57:51) mjl-: so now i only run the gc when emu is idle when 64k or 128k of heap allocation has gone up/down, or otherwise if the last gc was 10 seconds ago
(10:58:45) mjl-: and that seems to work quite well so far, but i haven't really pressured it hard with allocations.  i should, to see if i didn't break the gc in some cases ;)
(10:58:45) mjl-: so it's not in inferno-os
(13:46:02) me__: it doesn't. 
(13:46:37) me__: inferno exits via killing its process group, atexit() handlers (required for gprof) don't run
(13:48:03) me__: mjl-: latest commit to inferno-npe, i replaced lock/add/unlock in incref/decref with xadd. time for the thread-ring benchmark dropped from 11.2sec to 9.6s
(13:48:28) me__: (i only did the replace for i386)
(14:30:39) mjl-: me__: impressive, nice
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(14:38:01) me__: i really didn't think it'd help that much, i guess there are a lot of incref/decref calls...
(15:18:58) mjl-: yeah...
(15:19:09) mjl-: i thought it may be all the dis heap objects, but that doesn't seem to be the case
(15:19:26) mjl-: me__: btw, the lock instruction prefix is not needed?
(15:19:40) mjl-: just read a bit about xadd* instructions
(15:20:11) mjl-: lock would be needed for smp machines that do concurrent xadd's?
(15:23:30) me__: mjl-: i thought about that, i'm not sure that its required, i need to read more about when LOCK is required; my thought was that even without it, some CPU would get to the xadd first, which would mean it'd transition the cacheline into a writeable state before writing...
(15:24:13) me__: and for the 2nd...N contending xadds, each would have to transition the line, meaning yelling at the other CPUs...
(15:24:36) me__: iono, perhaps that's not right.
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(15:27:48) mjl-: i don't have solid knowledge on these locking features of processors...
(15:28:12) mjl-: me__: if two cpu's doing concurrent adds wouldn't be the reason to have the lock prefix, what would be a reason to have a lock prefix?
(15:28:38) mjl-: i wouldn't be surprised if there is no guaranteed consistency (without lock) between reading the memory location and writing it back
(15:30:46) mjl-: me__: btw, it seems the xadd* instructions save the added value (dst+src) in the original src register?  couldn't you that as return value for _xadd, and get rid of the +1 and -1 in incref() and decref()?
(15:31:17) me__: mjl-: no, because there's no atomicity between the add and the re-read of the source
(15:33:30) mjl-: ah, yes
(15:34:04) mjl-: i'm wrong on xadd* returning dst+src, it returns the original dst alone, and that's what you're using to add/sub
(15:34:18) me__: oh, i misread you, haha.
(15:34:32) me__: i thought you were suggesting xadd followed by read
(15:35:23) me__: actually, it also returns the sign / zero-ness of the result (in EFLAGS), the panic case doesn't need the - 1 in decref :D
(15:39:27) me__: mjl-: oh, you're right about XADD.
(15:39:30) me__: *lock
(15:40:12) me__: i was forgetting that its not one Op internally; the read half can happen without transitioning the cachelines to writable states
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(16:03:19) mjl-: me__: it seems you've introduced some 4-space indents.  not sure if that is intended.
(16:07:21) me__: oh, hmm, where? (wasn't intentional...)
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(16:10:04) mjl-: in changeset b83540e1e77e most lines have spaces.  that's the xadd commit.
(16:11:31) me__: oh, oops!
(16:19:52) me__: mjl-: would you like me to commit something changing that back?
(16:23:23) mjl-: for consistent style it could be changed to tab-indents.  but doesn't have to be now.  perhaps sneak it in some cleanup commit or something?
(16:31:47) EthanG: IMHO things should be run through a code-tidyer before submission and optionally on checkout too
(16:38:45) me__: fair, i just didn't think about the issue at all, :D
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(18:31:37) me__: mjl-: http://pastebin.com/m16c856e0
(18:31:44) me__: LOCK doesn't hurt much at all. :D
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(21:06:22) mjl-: me__: nice
(21:06:25) mjl-: and nice machiens you have :)
(21:26:55) me__: not mine. my computer is a k6-2 /400mhz
(21:27:03) me__: :D
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(22:51:15) uriel: ah, I had a k6-2 running plan9 in a past life!
(22:51:27) uriel: worked really well
(00:15:10) Capso: mjl-: Could you produce a couple of diffs for me to apply? I could use those changes, and I'd be happy to test.
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(11:06:37) mjl-: Capso: i'll post a patch here later today, have to run now
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(02:26:04) me___: here's an interesting one - the C limbo compiler has a -O option to do some optimizations
(02:26:10) me___: the limbo version's -O is a noop
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(16:31:27) mjl-: Capso: this is the patch i'm running with now, for the gc: http://www.ueber.net/who/mjl/tmp/infgc.diff
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(00:18:23) me___: mjl-: would patches that add only comments (and no code) be okay in inferno-npe?
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(09:07:59) mjl-: vsrinivas: comment-patches seem good to me
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(17:29:19) andguent: acme-sac hangs on osx snow leopard. any thoughts? similar experiences?
(17:29:57) andguent: ui becomes unrespsonsive. it's not in a tight loop though, kind of deadlockish...but havent done any debugging yet
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(17:35:05) mjl00: andguent: only thing that i've seen with hanging ui's is after i (accidentally) resized the window
(17:35:11) mjl00: but then it didn't redraw at all anymore
(17:35:25) andguent: on the snow leopard?
(17:35:26) mjl00: i have no solution though...
(17:35:30) mjl00: nopes, openbsd
(17:35:33) andguent: k
(17:35:43) andguent: well here it starts it up...and the default is all loaded
(17:35:58) andguent: it looks perfect. except it's not responsive after drawing it all the first time
(17:36:20) andguent: i'll have to check if it's acme-sac related or also happens in inferno-os
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(18:42:00) mjl00: vsrinivas: do you have uncommitted code for incref/decref for Nt?
(18:42:17) mjl00: the current hg code doesn't compile
(18:42:23) mjl00: i've just added decref,incref locally
(18:53:13) vsrinivas: oh, oops! i forgot about Nt!
(18:53:17) vsrinivas: ... sorry!
(18:56:09) mjl00: shit happens :)
(18:56:43) mjl00: shall i commit the incref/decref version with normal locks in it?  or will you or do you have a version with xadd?
(18:56:59) vsrinivas: i don't have a version;
(18:57:07) mjl00: i just found out my windows 7 install had visual studio installed on the drive that broke down...
(18:57:12) mjl00: ok, i'll commit it
(18:57:23) vsrinivas: go ahead, thanks. (i don't have any windows systems to test on...)
(18:57:46) mjl00: "luckily" i've got two
(19:00:33) mjl00: i hope to commit ipv6 support to inferno-npe soon btw
(19:00:38) mjl00: that's why i'm compiling on windows
(19:00:44) mjl00: too bad i don't have a mac os x machine
(19:00:51) mjl00: i should buy one when i get a job again :)
(19:04:59) vsrinivas: haha, nice
(19:27:38) mjl00: blegh, windows 7 & visual studio messed up so hard visual studio cannot reinstall itself...
(19:27:50) mjl00: (the disk on which visual studio was installed broke)
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(20:08:23) mjl00: i committed and pushed the ipv6 code now too
(20:08:34) mjl00: if anyone wants to test, please do
(20:08:50) mjl00: some time ago i tested on windows 7, netbsd & freebsd
(20:09:02) mjl00: but not this time, i'm assuming it still works or bugs will be found ;)
(20:15:52) vsrinivas: cool, i'll give it a try
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(20:29:12) mjl00: i've disabled the tk blinker too
(20:33:00) vsrinivas: hahaha thanks
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(13:12:39) C-Keen: ahum, so what's the status of the kirkwood inferno port?
(13:39:25) mjl00: quite some time since something happened to it
(13:39:54) mjl00: meaning it can still boot and you can use the network, but it's not mature enough to use a inferno server
(13:40:18) mjl00: so no usb, sdio is not fully working (not usable as file system at least)
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(14:36:45) C-Keen: mjl-: ah thanks
(14:39:12) mjl-: C-Keen: do you have a sheevaplug?
(14:39:19) mjl-: or are you looking for some hardware to run inferno on?
(14:40:47) C-Keen: I am looking for hardware
(14:41:08) C-Keen: also I always toyed with the idea of buying a sheevaplug
(14:44:21) mjl-: at least they are not expensive :)
(14:44:37) mjl-: last week i set up one of my two plugs with linux
(14:44:42) mjl-: emu runs on it
(14:44:55) mjl-: and when i (or someone else) finishes support, i can run inferno natively
(14:45:04) mjl-: btw, there are sheevaplugs with esata on them
(14:45:20) mjl-: that might be nice (for performance and avoiding a whole usb stack, for storage)
(14:47:26) C-Keen: indeed
(14:47:43) C-Keen: but having a usb port is not bad either
(14:48:31) C-Keen: I could plug in my arduino or another mikrocontroller board and have it control something else in the real world while serving an interface to it via styx on inferno
(14:49:01) mjl-: i think you can get at some gpio pins too
(14:49:06) mjl-: but the forums would know more about it
(14:49:13) mjl-: and salva would probably know too
(14:53:52) C-Keen: ah right
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(05:10:14) me___: hooray, vgaradeon in plan9!
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(10:44:54) mjl-: morning all
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(11:35:54) mjl-: http://groups.google.com/group/inferno-npe-changes
(11:36:09) mjl-: i set up that new mailing list, it receives mail whenever changes to inferno-npe are pushed
(11:36:17) mjl-: (it's read-only)
(11:37:01) C-Keen: I don't understand how all these inferno trees are related nowadays
(11:38:42) mjl-: there aren't _that_ many are there?
(11:38:48) mjl-: inferno-os is vita nuova's tree
(11:39:07) mjl-: inferno-npe is inferno-os+community changes
(11:39:16) mjl-: how many more are there?
(11:39:42) mjl-: acme-sac perhaps, but i consider that to be just acme that happens to use inferno
(11:40:08) olegfink: inferno-openmoko, inferno-tx
(11:40:34) mjl-: good point
(11:40:37) mjl-: i don't know much about those
(11:40:43) olegfink: http://code.google.com/hosting/search?q=label:inferno
(11:40:55) mjl-: some of inferno-tx might be in inferno-npe
(11:40:59) mjl-: as a branch
(11:41:08) mjl-: i've seen brasil by ericvh a few days ago
(11:41:17) mjl-: on github i think
(11:42:02) C-Keen: so it's npe I want to use to get all the nice fixes?
(11:42:29) mjl-: C-Keen: it may be a bit bleeding edge some time
(11:42:39) mjl-: new features may be in there too
(11:42:43) C-Keen: also has anyone seen the patches to get inferno to run on a lemote MIPS architecture? someone mentioned it on the list
(11:42:58) mjl-: not me, i also don't have a lemote
(11:43:10) C-Keen: I do ;)
(11:43:17) olegfink: which one?
(11:43:21) mjl-: C-Keen: the idea of inferno-npe is that pretty much everyone can get commit access, to make for faster development by the community
(11:43:39) mjl-: C-Keen: but if you have code that somewhat works, feel free to put it in inferno-npe
(11:44:21) C-Keen: olegfink: the yeeloong8085
(11:44:29) olegfink: mjl-, repo.or.cz supports an interesting feature called mob patchset, it's essentially a branch with anonymous commit access
(11:45:22) mjl-: sounds useful
(11:45:41) mjl-: i suppose this is about the same, but still does require someone to add you to the list of committers.  plus it's not in a separate branch
(11:45:44) mjl-: ah well
(11:45:48) mjl-: C-Keen: how do you like that machine?
(11:45:56) mjl-: i saw kd85.com sells them still
(11:46:21) C-Keen: mjl-: it is nice the battery sucks
(11:46:46) C-Keen: tekmote.nl also sells them
(11:47:42) olegfink: is it possible to swap with something of more capacity?
(11:48:03) mjl-: too bad i have enough laptops already :)
(11:48:05) C-Keen: olegfink: no, because they placed it between the hinges of the screen
(11:48:29) C-Keen: olegfink: lemote says they are working on it though
(11:48:35) mjl-: C-Keen: do you know if newer versions of the lemotes will be coming out?
(11:48:46) mjl-: these laptops have been around for >1 year or so?
(11:48:54) olegfink: mjl-: I believe they're working on loongson 3
(11:49:01) C-Keen: mjl-: there is already a successor 
(11:49:08) C-Keen: to my model
(11:52:42) olegfink: I wonder how much does some ibm laptop design cost, I understand lemote guys can't come up with something nice by themselves, but buying something like ibm butterfly design will be worth it I think
(11:52:53) olegfink: (after all, ibm's not selling those for like 15 years?)
(12:16:06) mjl-: anyone here going to fosdem?
(12:16:19) mjl-: 6-7 febr in brussels,belgium
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(20:10:28) bvalek2: hi, i installed inferno on plan 9, how do i make it see the internet?
(20:11:55) bvalek2: in the log at the beginning, plumb says, /usr/glenda doesnt exits (i am logged in as the rabbit)
(20:15:46) mjl-: bvalek2: you want to bind plan 9's /net on inferno's /net, and plan 9's /usr on inferno's /usr
(20:15:57) mjl-: or i would think inferno does that by default
(20:16:11) mjl-: i don't have my plan 9 machine on now, with the script i use to start inferno...
(20:16:32) mjl-: try looking at fs(3), '#U'
(20:25:50) bvalek2: mjl- thanks
(20:36:42) bvalek2: mjl- : where are inferno's /net and /usr directories?
(21:07:04) me___: bvalek2: what do you mean?
(21:07:38) me___: bvalek2: they are at /net and /usr, respectively. you can bind '#U*/net' and '#U*/usr' onto their inferon equivalents...
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(21:25:13) bvalek2: how do i set up Inferno on Plan 9 to access the internet with Charon?
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(21:28:42) uriel: ?
(21:28:47) uriel: the same you would setup in
(21:28:51) uriel: ferno for anything else
(21:29:16) uriel: if you want net access on inferno, make sure /net and dns are working
(21:38:25) bvalek2: uriel : Charon doesnt resolve address, there is only 'cs' in /net. i tried bind -a '#I' /net, didnt work (doesnt know '#I'), did ndb/cs too
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(21:49:56) uriel: then bind /net/dns from the host *doh*
(22:02:06) me___: bvalek2_dinner: bind -a '#U*/net' /net will do what you want, iirc. 
(22:13:28) soul9: yeah, isn't plan9 hosted inferno special in some ways? (like this one?)
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(22:29:46) less1: Hi, I have Channel pointer to directory in remote filesystem, and I need to get list of files in that directory and also Chan pointer to those file/dir within this directory.  any pointers on how can I do this from kernel space?
(22:34:20) me___: less1: sounds like what you're trying to do is already done by devmnt; that said, you can use mntrdwr(Tread, chan, ...) and chop up the replies as mntread does now
(22:35:27) me___: once you have the names, you can use mntwalk to get Chans to stuff inside...
(22:36:52) less1: me___: thanks :-) , is there any place where I can find example usage of devmnt to start with?
(22:38:55) me___: um. devmnt.c is the mount driver, its used all over the place...
(22:40:29) me___: (what are you trying to do, btw?) sys->mount uses it, basically it turns syscalls into styx messages
(22:42:42) less1: me__: I have a remote filesystem mounted on one location.  I have channel to that location.  Now I need to find out what all is there inside that filesystem and use few files within that remote filesystem.
(22:48:45) me___: sure, i meant at a larger level;; this is easy in Limbo, you have devmnt generating the styx messages from you calls... if you must be in C as a device driver, you can either call into devmnt the same way yourself, or you might be able to call the inferno syscalls as though you were limbo... (port/inferno.c's sys_read / sys_open / sys_stat...)
(22:50:11) me___: (and sys_dirread)
(22:54:30) less1: me__ : I am working on executing commands on  remote host machine running inferno.  How I plan to do it is export the devcmd from remote inferno, and mount it on local inferno.  then send commands to remote machine from this mounted filesystem.  I am writing another sudo filesystem, which will do the job of executing given command on remote machine using remote devcmd and getting back the output.  
(22:54:46) less1: thanks for these pointers.. :-)   I am trying to use them :-)
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(23:08:48) me___: http://cs.nju.edu.cn/gchen/paper/ipdps2002/DATA/13_161.PDF hmm, might be of interest; some work done to improve on VCGC
(23:17:45) less1: thanks for sharing the link.
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(23:22:11) me___: hmm, that link didn't have to do with devmnt... it was a GC link..
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