Conversation with #inferno at Sat Apr 23 01:48:36 2011 on powerman-asdf@irc.freenode.net (irc) (07:29:30) powerman: is it possible to dynamically load C-module? (07:30:09) powerman: I see some files which may be related to this (like module/loader.m), but there is no man pages or other docs (07:38:44) powerman: also, libdynld/ (07:40:53) powerman: and device '#L' (dynld) (07:45:28) powerman: hm. looks like this isn't for loading limbo modules implemented in C :( (10:12:13) perdix [~mkhl@sxemacs/devel/perdix] entered the room. (10:36:33) Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] entered the room. (10:55:03) perdix left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (11:22:58) perdix [~mkhl@sxemacs/devel/perdix] entered the room. (11:28:46) perdix left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (12:13:41) Fish- left the room (quit: Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish). (12:39:14) perdix [~mkhl@sxemacs/devel/perdix] entered the room. 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(18:04:25) H3MLOCK: Hey! Has anyone thought of porting this to a smartphone like the droid yet? (18:04:31) H3MLOCK: I know it's been ported to the freerunner (18:13:33) Fish-: "the port" to freerunner is just 4 lines of ASM (18:14:02) Fish-: you mean hosted, right? (18:14:02) H3MLOCK: Wait, so this should be really easy right? (18:14:12) H3MLOCK: No, I mean unhosted (18:14:28) Fish-: it was never ported natively on the freerunner (18:14:42) Fish-: it's quite a huge work (18:14:43) H3MLOCK: Oh... didn't know about that (18:14:59) Fish-: but it was ported on the sheevaplug for example (18:15:14) Fish-: but running hosted on android could be nice (18:15:20) Fish-: but that's more work than openmoko (18:15:34) Fish-: since you cannot simply use X11 or the framebuffer (18:16:12) H3MLOCK: That's true... Although, theoretically you could run it on a jailed debian on an android but that would probably be too much overhead (18:16:52) Fish-: running it as a standard application would be interesting because you would then be able to use it on many devices (18:18:27) H3MLOCK: True... my incentive was how it would make networking among mobile devices a lot more robust (18:19:28) H3MLOCK: Would there be a significant performance difference running it natively as compared to hosted (18:19:29) H3MLOCK: ? (18:24:22) Fish-: probably, but I don't think you care about performance (18:25:04) Fish-: most things on inferno were designed to run on very small hardware (18:25:55) H3MLOCK: So native would give us a lot more horsepower for something like a custom dis app (18:26:36) Fish-: in fact, you want to replace android by inferno as a smartphone operating system? (18:27:07) H3MLOCK: That was my idea (18:27:31) H3MLOCK: But the idea of it running as an app sounded pretty cool too (18:27:47) Fish-: it would be interesting, but I think it's huge work to run it natively (18:28:07) perdix [~mkhl@sxemacs/devel/perdix] entered the room. (18:28:22) Fish-: and you will encounter hard problems like how to handle the phone stack which is very obscure and closed (18:28:35) Fish-: mainly for 3G (18:30:07) H3MLOCK: I'm not too concerned with that at the moment, because most of that will involve negotiating with a service provider, which I don't want to do until the very end (18:30:45) H3MLOCK: Just out of curiousity, how would I go about porting it? (18:32:56) Fish-: first you need to port the compiler and the libc to the architecture (18:33:12) Fish-: since most android devices are ARMv7 today, I think it's mostly already supported (18:33:55) Fish-: then you have to write the "os" part and deal with the bootloader (18:34:15) Fish-: the "os" is mostly a old plan 9 kernel (18:34:38) Fish-: since it was ported to sheevaplug and ipaq, you always have examples here (18:34:54) Fish-: and probably you will find some common code (18:35:25) Fish-: most android devices are fairly different architectures, so you will have to stick to a single architecture du begin with (18:35:51) Fish-: and preferably one where it's easy to hack the bootloader (18:36:26) Fish-: (and one which is well documented) (18:36:45) Fish-: there are many different ARM architectures out now (18:36:57) Fish-: and the documentation quality vary a lot (18:37:34) Fish-: it's at least 6 months work I think (18:37:40) Fish-: probably more (18:40:17) H3MLOCK: Well, I have a motorola droid, which uses ARMv7 CortexA8, so I can test with that. It has an unlocked bootloader to begin with, so that's not an issue. (18:40:46) H3MLOCK: Thank you for the help though. Now I know where to start. (18:41:03) H3MLOCK: Now, if I were to port it as hosted, what would I go about doing? (18:42:02) Fish-: it shouldn't be very difficult (18:42:36) Fish-: you have to look at the NDK I think to work with native binary applications from the java layer (18:43:04) Fish-: first, you must be able compile and execute inferno on it from the console (18:43:15) H3MLOCK: So, basically compile it using the NDK? (18:43:48) Fish-: yes (18:44:27) H3MLOCK: That doesn't sound too bad. Maybe I'll try that first to see how it goes and then try working on a native port (18:45:09) H3MLOCK: I'll definitely post everything here (18:56:02) jibun [~jibun@dsl-trebrasgw1-fff0c300-37.dhcp.inet.fi] entered the room. (18:58:45) perdix left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (19:01:47) perdix [~mkhl@sxemacs/devel/perdix] entered the room. (19:03:03) Fish-: ok (19:05:03) perdix left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (19:21:29) perdix [~mkhl@sxemacs/devel/perdix] entered the room. (19:58:25) H3MLOCK left the room (quit: Quit: H3MLOCK). (20:04:39) Fish left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 246 seconds). (20:18:37) perdix left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (20:36:20) perdix [~mkhl@sxemacs/devel/perdix] entered the room. (20:51:11) perdix left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (21:01:41) perdix [~mkhl@sxemacs/devel/perdix] entered the room. (21:20:04) perdix left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (22:01:08) Fish [~Fish@exo3753.pck.nerim.net] entered the room. (23:03:38) perdix [~mkhl@sxemacs/devel/perdix] entered the room. (23:07:15) perdix left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (00:31:55) Fish- left the room (quit: Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish). (01:28:03) The account has disconnected and you are no longer in this chat. 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