Conversation with #inferno at Tue Dec  9 19:45:40 2008 on powerman-asdf@irc.freenode.net (irc)
(19:45:40) #inferno: The topic for #inferno is: Inferno and Limbo | Website: http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/index.html | Documentation: http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/docs.html | Wiki: http://canto.hopto.org/wiki/1/index.html | Tutorial: http://www.resc.rdg.ac.uk/twiki/bin/view/Resc/InfernoTutorial | Mailing list archives: http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.os.inferno.general
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(16:01:35) mjl-: does anyone think inferno-os hosted random number generation is slow?
(16:02:11) mjl-: and wonder/know random number generation is implemented completely on its own, instead of using the random number generation of the hosted os?
(16:13:38) sqweek: maybe to provide some guarentees about entropy?
(16:14:13) sqweek: i do remember it took ages to sign a key on my 500mhz box
(16:14:19) mjl-: yeah, that would be the slowness
(16:14:33) mjl-: but i guess i really wanted to know why the host os isn't used for that
(16:14:52) mjl-: the host os has much more info, all hardware-related randomness
(16:15:05) mjl-: e.g. mouse/keyboard/network/other interrupt timers
(16:15:37) mjl-: i guess it takes effort to write support.  that would be a good reason :)
(16:19:55) soul9: can't you bind the /dev/urndom of the host over inferno's /dev/random?
(16:21:05) soul9: seems to work for me
(16:21:22) mjl-: hmm, good point :)
(16:21:30) soul9: bind '#U*' /n/unixroot; bind /n/unixroot/dev/urandom /dev/random
(16:23:32) mjl-: yeah, that should do the trick.  though on openbsd /dev/urandom is not guaranteed strong random....  so i need another device
(16:27:14) soul9: you could import it over network from a linux machine
(16:27:41) soul9: mycroftiv: you don't want to share your urandom on /g/9? :-)
(16:28:44) mjl-: heh, well openbsd has /dev/srandom and /dev/arandom
(16:29:06) mjl-: /dev/random is reserved for later use...
(16:29:27) mjl-: a bit inconvenient when porting software.  before you know it, you're using low-entropy data...
(16:35:43) soul9: weird
(16:55:41) mjl-: i think they reserved it for future hardware support or something...
(16:55:45) mjl-: anyway, next problem
(16:56:08) mjl-: in wm/deb, when i "add group" of threads, i often get pids that are not in the group
(16:56:50) mjl-: i'm thinking of a group as pids with the same parent id as the thread i selected
(16:57:16) mjl-: but the thread i selected isn't even opened
(17:05:29) mycroftiv: soul9: of course, ill even share my /mnt/sys/wctl
(17:05:58) soul9: xD
(17:06:32) mycroftiv: Haunted Rio may be one of the first 'true' grid apps 
(17:13:20) soul9: hahaha
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(17:51:18) gualteri: propaganda: there's an ak2i for DSi which runs homebrew .nds files directly
(17:52:31) gualteri: which is good news, as it means that inferno-ds as the rest of homebrew will run unmodified on DSi
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(16:27:49) gualteri: good evening
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(22:09:07) tombohannon: I'm running Inferno hosted on MacOSX.  The two-finger track pad nor the wheel on my external mouse will scroll a window.  Can someone point me in the right direction?
(22:17:24) soul9: scrollwheel doesn't work, see the bugtracker
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(13:38:46) sqweek: hey gualteri
(13:38:59) sqweek: how much RAM do you estimate is spare to play with in inferno-ds?
(13:47:34) gualteri: i don't have the numbers here but iirc: 4Mb - 1.4 (kernel image) - (wm/wm and apps) = ~2 Mb
(13:48:35) gualteri: also compiling thumb code instead of arm code  saves around 200 Kb
(13:49:16) gualteri: btw DSi will come with 14 Mb of ram and a wifi performance of 11Mbps 
(13:50:00) gualteri: so the DSi will overcome the DS's memory limitations
(13:54:43) gualteri: is that enough for what you have in mind?
(13:56:18) gualteri: also if you have an expansion pack store/recover things there using /dev/ndsram
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(14:20:41) sqweek: 2mb sounds alright
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(14:23:32) gualteri: to be sure you can check the memory usage running wm/memory after starting wm/wm
(14:23:54) gualteri: also see this for thumb compilation: http://code.google.com/p/inferno-os/issues/detail?id=155
(14:26:01) sqweek: cool, good to know
(14:26:09) sqweek: i'm probably busy cleaning my apartment this week
(14:26:22) sqweek: but i did start writing some limbo code the other day at least :)
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(14:32:10) gualteri: that's good, i'm working on wifi, slow but sure :)
(14:32:11) gualteri: bbl
(14:39:58) uriel: gualteri: I'm sorry I fucked that gsoc thing (like everything)
(14:40:40) uriel: this is just not a good time for me to work on those kinds of things, and doesn't seem that anyone in a possition to help is particularly interested in doing anything about it 
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