Conversation with #inferno at Wed Mar 25 21:36:52 2009 on powerman-asdf@irc.freenode.net (irc)
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(22:05:19) mjl-: does anyone know what the new forse branch in inferno-os is?
(22:09:12) mjl-: darn, i'm starting to speculate here.  need to get distraction :P
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(22:50:33) gdiaz_ios: inferno svn does not like alt combinations in mac osx like when i tipoe {}
(22:50:44) gdiaz_ios: *typ
(22:50:55) gdiaz_ios: XD type i meant
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(01:54:57) uriel: mjl-: of course not, we wouldn't want anyone to know what is happening in inferno development
(01:56:19) uriel: (but in all fairness, at least charless does keep a half decent changelog, which is something one can't even dream of for plan9)
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(17:46:03) mennis: I'm having a problem with my init: [Dhcpclient] Broken: "trap: fault read "  I've posted it at: http://pastie.org/427763.
(17:47:57) mennis: I wonder if somehow the dhcp module is falling out of scope too soon or something like that.  This init used to work before I reorganized it.
(17:49:57) mjl-: mennis: your check of load of Dhclient is fishy
(17:50:07) mjl-:  dhcpclient = load Dhcpclient Dhcpclient->PATH;
(17:50:07) mjl-:  if(dhcpclient == nil)
(17:50:07) mjl-:   {
(17:50:09) mjl-:   sys->sprint("Failed:\n\tcan't load dhcpclient:\n\t%r");
(17:50:09) mjl-:  } else dhcpclient->init();
(17:50:15) mjl-: sys->sprint returns a string
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(17:50:39) mjl-: so, on failure, you'll create a string that isn't used.  then continue (without a dhcpclient->init()
(17:51:43) mennis: Oh hmm. That's interesting, I'll fix that, but the dhcp client is working and soed pull and address.
(17:54:13) mjl-: can't you skip the dhcp, load the shell, then dhcp manually and see where it fails?
(17:54:18) mjl-: or does it not fail in that case?
(17:56:31) mennis: Yeah, I'll give that a shot, I haven't tried that yet.
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(17:57:19) mjl-: otherwise, just go back to the original, and keep changing & testing till it fails...
(17:57:22) mjl-: time-consuming though
(17:59:21) mennis: It's weird 'cause the dhcpclient doesn't do anything after it gets an address yet it breaks after it is done.
(18:00:18) mjl-: oh, that is weird indeed
(18:01:29) mennis: Wait maybe if (i>0) is the issue there is not ether1 and he tries to dhcp on it. Hmm
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(18:21:34) mennis: AH that _was_ the problem.  I reworked that loop and posted it back to the same pastie if you want to see it.
(18:24:46) mjl-: it's the little things that matter...
(18:24:49) mjl-: ;)
(18:24:55) mennis: ;)
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(12:48:50) gdiaz_ios: mjl- ircfs only works if debug is on (-d to irfcfs) if not, it does not respond. . .have you seen that behaviour? what i'm missing?
(12:51:34) mjl-: hmm, haven't seen it.  let me try
(12:51:41) mjl-: i think i always run with -d
(12:52:03) mjl-: btw, when connecting, all styx/9p ops will block until either there is a connection or it failed.
(12:52:22) mjl-: this can be annoying when the remote server is checking/stalling your connection, which is quite common on irc
(12:52:28) mjl-: that's something i need to fix
(12:52:32) mjl-: but let me check on the other thing
(12:53:06) gdiaz_ios: i waited quite a bit, but just putting -d make it works. . or seems so
(12:54:11) mjl-: that would be very strange.  i just checked and -d is really only used for writing to stderr.  but let me try if i can reproduce
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(12:54:56) mjl1: without -d!
(12:55:57) gdiaz_ios: hum, i tried three times, could it be i'm still sleepy?. . . .
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(12:59:20) soul9: gdiaz_ios, or hg pull -u?
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(13:01:11) mjl-: gdiaz_ios: this is what i did:
(13:01:13) mjl-: emu -c0
(13:01:13) mjl-: ndb/cs
(13:01:13) mjl-: mount -A {ircfs -n mjl1 -a net!irc.freenode.net!6667 freenode} /mnt/irc
(13:01:13) mjl-: echo reconnect >/mnt/irc/ctl
(13:01:13) mjl-: echo 'join #inferno' >/mnt/irc/ctl
(13:01:14) mjl-: cd /mnt/irc/1
(13:01:16) mjl-: cat >data
(13:01:18) mjl-: without -d!
(13:02:19) gdiaz_ios: hum, i use svc/net, and mount {ircfs feenode} /mnt/irc/freenode, and then wm/irc /mnt/irc/freenode
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(13:05:12) mjl-: are those the exact commands?
(13:05:16) mjl-: mount would need -A i think
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(13:05:28) soul9: mjl-, why?
(13:05:40) mjl-: i think it would do inferno authentication otherwise
(13:05:46) mjl-: or is that skipped for {}'s?
(13:06:41) mjl-: -A
(13:06:41) mjl-:     For mount only. Do not authenticate the connection to the server before proceeding with mount. Otherwise the connection is authenticated by security-auth(2). 
(13:06:58) soul9: i never really used the -A iirc
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(13:07:52) soul9: i have this mount {ircfs -l /usr/johnny/irclog/freenode -a net!irc.freenode.net!6667 -n soul9 freenode} /mnt/irc/freenode
(13:08:20) mjl-: yeah, seems to work
(13:09:08) gdiaz_ios: i think so
(13:09:15) mjl-: ok, mount(1) doesn't do auth when it's a {} command
(13:10:20) soul9: though i don't use ircfs now :-(
(13:10:32) soul9: inferno doesn't like my gcc/glibc/xorg+xcb
(13:10:37) soul9: :-((
(13:10:52) mjl-: hmm, that sucks
(13:11:03) mjl-: i did see a commit in inferno-os mentioning xcb, i think
(13:11:07) soul9: hm
(13:11:09) mjl-: but perhaps that didn't solve it
(13:11:10) soul9: lemme see
(13:11:35) soul9: maybe it's the gcc/glibc problem then
(13:11:42) soul9: some mounts make emu fail
(13:12:45) mjl-: r377 and r378 might have been about xcb
(13:13:05) soul9: hmmm, that's pretty recent
(13:13:07) mjl-: at least they are about x11 stuff
(13:13:11) soul9: i'll update and see
(13:13:12) mjl-: 6 days ago, the latest
(13:13:13) soul9: thanks
(13:17:41) mjl-: np
(13:17:46) mjl-: hope it works
(13:17:51) soul9: yeah, rebuilt
(13:17:58) mjl-: this thread on wrt54gl on the inferno mailing list is good
(13:18:07) mjl-: i happen to have two wrt54gl's that i also wanted to run linux on
(13:18:12) mjl-: i knew there was a port
(13:18:19) mjl-: but it seems too easy not to try
(13:18:27) mjl-: just need to find replacement access points though
(13:18:31) soul9: wrt54gl runs linux by default
(13:18:55) mjl-: but can you make it run your own programs?
(13:19:04) soul9: yes, with openwrt
(13:19:14) soul9: well, not on the default dlink install, no
(13:19:32) soul9: they use their own crappy vulnerable version of linux instead of working with the community
(13:19:35) mjl-: yeah, so i just need to put openwrt on it
(13:19:36) mjl-: :D
(13:19:40) soul9: yea
(13:19:45) mjl-: weren't the openwrt things vulnerable too?
(13:20:04) mjl-: i read some link (from slashdot) a few days ago about a botnet running on access points/routers
(13:20:11) soul9: didn't you hear? there's a new botnet made up of exploited linux-based home routers
(13:20:13) mjl-: i think they mentioned wrt, but perhaps not openwrt
(13:20:14) soul9: yeah
(13:20:24) soul9: no, i don't think wrt is vulnerable
(13:20:33) soul9: the proprietary linuxes the put on are vulnerable
(13:20:42) soul9: at least that's what i have been told
(13:21:20) mjl-: funny
(13:21:30) mjl-: you'ld expect them to put up new firmware then...
(13:21:43) soul9: well, the other way around would have surprised me more, i have to say
(13:21:47) soul9: heh, yeah
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(13:22:12) soul9: finished building, now for a quick test
(13:23:56) soul9: mjl-, can you quickly link me your main inferno page please?
(13:24:00) soul9: i always forget it
(13:24:09) mjl-: hmm, with ircfs on it?
(13:24:13) soul9: this time i'll add it to 9souldier.org/links though :-)
(13:24:16) soul9: yes, the repo page
(13:24:24) mjl-: www.ueber.net/code/ is the overview
(13:24:30) mjl-: and www.ueber.net/code/r/ircfs is for ircfs
(13:24:32) soul9: ok, yep, thanks
(13:25:01) mjl-: the name is feeling lamer every day i use it.  but well, chose it too long ago to replace
(13:25:06) mjl-: domain name
(13:25:19) mjl-: soul9: have you used openwrt by any chance?
(13:25:40) mjl-: just arranged that i'll have a wrt54gl at my dispolsal after this weekend
(13:25:49) soul9: mjl-, yes, i have
(13:26:03) soul9: i use dd-wrt nowadays, though i have no time to sysadmin my router too :-)
(13:26:14) mjl-: ☺
(13:26:23) mjl-: dd-wrt is different/better/newer/older?
(13:26:28) soul9: damned linux/unix, if i had the same number of plan9 machines everything would be so much darn easier :-(
(13:26:29) mjl-: what would you recommendt ot ry?
(13:26:34) soul9: well
(13:26:45) soul9: you can't really run your own programs on it :-(
(13:26:56) soul9: and no real ssh access, no shell
(13:27:16) soul9: but it gives you a nice graphical interface, and it's very configurable
(13:27:19) soul9: and very complete
(13:27:30) soul9: s,graphical,web
(13:27:30) mjl-: ok
(13:27:32) soul9: ;-)
(13:27:34) mjl-: ;)
(13:27:44) mjl-: then that won't work to run inferno
(13:27:52) soul9: you run inferno on arm?
(13:27:57) soul9: i want to run inferno on arm
(13:27:59) soul9: :-)
(13:28:03) soul9: on my cellphone
(13:28:40) mjl-: what os does your phone run?
(13:29:07) soul9: linux
(13:29:22) soul9: it's openmoko, so i can run any of a number of os's
(13:29:58) mjl-: well, there is already an arm port for linux i think?
(13:30:34) mjl-: and wasn't someone already working on some code to make it work on the openmoko?
(13:32:20) gualteri: mjl-, yes, inferno-openmoko on google code iirc
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(13:36:41) soul9: doesn't seem to work though
(13:38:39) C-Keen: the wrt54gl is a mips machine
(13:38:51) C-Keen: (little endian)
(13:38:57) soul9: aah
(13:39:20) mjl-: yeah, just noticed the spim dirs in rmiller's .tgz's
(13:42:02) C-Keen: I also would be interested if someone has experience in running inferno on mips
(13:43:04) C-Keen: if I get some more time I will return to build an emu for linux mipsel
(13:43:09) C-Keen: next step native
(13:43:16) mjl-: C-Keen: didn't you have one of those lemote laptops?
(13:43:28) C-Keen: mjl-: yep
(13:44:08) C-Keen: Also I will donor beer if someone writes a pdf renderer for inferno
(13:44:15) C-Keen: s,donor,donate,
(13:45:05) mjl-: C-Keen: i have code that parsers the structure of a pdf file
(13:45:09) mjl-: doesn't render though
(13:45:17) mjl-: i did almost get decent conversion to text
(13:45:30) mjl-: (i planned on making a tool to index articles from pdf)
(13:45:46) C-Keen: mjl-: oh nice
(13:46:26) C-Keen: mjl-: unfortunately plan9 somewhat chickend out by porting ghostscript
(13:46:50) mjl-: yeah
(13:46:56) mjl-: i'll see if i can put the pdf code online
(13:47:02) mjl-: first have to inspect the state it is in
(13:48:19) C-Keen: mjl-: that'd be great.
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(14:14:19) gdiaz_ios: pdf is hell, every modern pdf "printer" out there uses compression, and other external tools, which are out of the scope of pdf. . .so you will need more than just bein able to parse pdf, but to support quite a few other libs
(14:15:00) mjl-: the compression is not the problem
(14:15:10) mjl-: it's normal deflate
(14:15:13) mjl-: well, almost
(14:15:23) mjl-: they have a few other funky encodings though
(14:16:16) mjl-: and i already encountered some invalid pdf's that other pdf readers did parse.  so there is some amount of web-style "we'll accept anything that looks like it might contain some valid bits of the format"
(14:18:42) C-Keen: heh
(14:31:04) gdiaz_ios: 1.6 specc? afair there were a couple of compress options plus the ones of your choice, embeding things to access repositories and a lot of stuff
(14:31:18) gdiaz_ios: off to eat :")
(14:32:18) mjl-: heh, i was only just beginning.  i can easily believe pdf allows for that
(14:32:26) mjl-: they do javascript in pdf nowadays
(14:32:28) mjl-: so all bets are off
(14:32:44) mjl-: i just found pdf/walk, a tk app to navigate through the structure of a pdf file
(14:33:00) mjl-: (a pdf file consists of a bunch of strings, dicts, lists, and references to those)
(14:34:25) C-Keen: and embedded fonts...
(14:34:50) newmanbe: Compiled PostScript.
(14:34:54) mjl-: yeah, those are annoying
(14:35:03) mjl-: when you want to do text conversion :)
(14:35:17) mjl-: also, some pdf's rearrange the charset
(14:35:30) mjl-: and i didn't implement that for the pdf/text i had so far.  so you get bogus output
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(14:36:09) mjl-: text in pdf isn't very nice in general of course.
(14:36:19) C-Keen: oh well it is not turing complete at least
(14:36:41) mjl-: i think (la)tex would position approx each character, e.g. by .002 points to left/right since previous character.
(14:36:56) mjl-: the code seems in reasonable state.
(14:37:01) mjl-: i'm going to put it online in a minute.
(14:37:07) C-Keen: \o/
(14:49:03) mjl-: http://www.ueber.net/code/r/pdfread
(14:50:50) C-Keen: thanks a lot
(14:51:05) mjl-: have fun :)
(14:51:22) mjl-: i just tested the pdf/text, it seems to output debug stuff in the text too.  but well, it isn't generally useful anyway
(14:51:49) mjl-: in pdf/walk, just click on text that has objref: in it
(14:52:22) mjl-: then it'll open it.  clicking on any element of the "address bar" will open up that part.
(14:56:28) C-Keen: ah nice
(14:58:11) mjl-: http://www.ueber.net/who/mjl/tmp/pdfwalk0.png
(14:58:43) mjl-: the lower text area shows some instructions for drawing
(14:59:06) mjl-: the middle text area shows the current decoded pdfobject
(14:59:15) mjl-: above that is the address bar
(14:59:28) mjl-: and i don't remember what the upper text area is for :)
(15:00:52) mjl-: ah, that's a bookmark thing.  you can press remember to make save the url, and later click on it
(15:02:25) mjl-: in my defence, it's only 436 lines of limbo ;)
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(16:13:19) gdiaz_ios: i did once a pdf2txt tool, but after i saw how different were the verious pdf versions, i decided to stop :)
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(17:04:22) mjl-: gdiaz_ios: i don't think the various pdf versions are annoying for to-text conversion
(17:04:55) mjl-: afaik, the new versions add more esoteric features that you don't really need, or otherwise don't break the compatibility with the earlier versions too much
(17:05:47) mjl-: C-Keen: if you are thinking of writing pdf-reading code, a tool that reads a pdf file and writes out the same pdf file but with all compressed objects uncompressed would be nice
(17:06:29) mjl-: a pdf reader for inferno was on the gsoc2007 list of ideas... would it be worthwhile for this years gsoc?
(17:06:51) mjl-: more so perhaps because there is some code to build on
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(17:27:22) gdiaz_ios: the thing was, the versions of pdf generators use the new features almost for anything, including replacing something that was done before in a way, its done now in other way
(17:27:48) gdiaz_ios: (sorry i think that text does not have the sense i want:?)
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(23:37:43) uriel: mjl-: sadly handling pdf is just a few notches below acpi in dificulty..
(23:37:50) uriel: (ie. pointlessly difficult)
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(10:00:01) sqweek: how the hell does inferno work out how to contact the auth server?
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