Conversation with #inferno at Wed Apr  8 16:06:46 2009 on powerman-asdf@irc.freenode.net (irc)
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(18:01:04) jmpnz: Amazon US has 8 copies of Philip Stanley-Marbell's book each under 6USD.
(18:07:19) soul9: :(
(18:09:17) ***soul9 .fr
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(22:38:19) fwiffo: is there something similar to rc ifs=() in inferno shell?
(22:39:06) fwiffo: basically i want to stuff the contents of a file in a variable
(22:40:47) mjl-: doesn't the ifs in sh(1) work for you?
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(22:43:30) fwiffo: ah, in fact there is "{cmd}, that's better
(22:43:39) fwiffo: i was messing with ifs earlier and it wasn't working, maybe my fault
(22:43:41) fwiffo: thanks
(22:47:46) mjl-: ah, "{cmd}, didn't really know about it.
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(22:56:07) fwiffo: ok, nopaste for inferno
(22:56:09) fwiffo: % nopaste nopaste
(22:56:10) fwiffo: http://rafb.net/p/BWNSci43.html
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(10:22:28) mjl-: good day
(10:45:52) soul9: good morning
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(12:51:02) gdiaz_ios: hum count could be -1 in libstyx?
(12:54:06) gdiaz_ios: i meant count of Fcall. . . 
(13:00:56) gdiaz_ios: hum styxserver.c is crashing when dealing with an incorrect Fcall. . . 
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(13:42:05) maht-: iirc no, count >= 0
(13:43:06) maht-: in a Tread if count < 0 you should return Rerror and if ou somehow need to return -1 (protocol abuse!!) then really you shuodl be returning Rerror
(13:49:47) gdiaz_ios: i got the failure. . odbc.c was settung -1 as the count value, the compiler then issued count=MAX_INTEGER which leads to access violation when the libstyx tries to read that much ans send it
(13:50:09) gdiaz_ios: the return values of a couple of functions should be checked. . . 
(13:51:09) gdiaz_ios: interesting that (r < 0) *n=0 : *n=r; doesn't work with visual studio, it dislike the *n=0, but if a if(r<0){*n=0;} else {*n=r;} works. . . 
(13:56:02) gdiaz_ios: i uploaded a new issue to the inferno-os issues page. . . 
(13:59:08) maht-:  (r < 0) *n=0 : *n=r;  no ? did you mean  (r < 0) ? *n=0 : *n=r; 
(13:59:39) gdiaz_ios: yes sorry, the syntax in the .c was correct, i just typo'ed here
(14:00:15) maht-: I've never seen it without a LHS, shouldn't it be *n = (r < 0) ? 0 : r;
(14:00:22) gdiaz_ios: may be there is an obscure option in visual-studio i don't know about which is related to why that does not work :?
(14:00:29) gdiaz_ios: off to eat :)
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(19:05:49) mjl-: heh, mailing list lag is fun
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(23:21:07) powerman: mjl-: it looks like charles neither find time to optimize maillist performance nor he will switch to other good software like ezmlm nor he will move maillist to other platform like google groups
(23:21:33) powerman: so, only option left is fix ml performance ourselves and send him a patch :)
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(01:58:37) uriel: powerman-asdf: er, you fail at following the pary line, which is: there is no problem with the mailing list
(01:58:55) uriel: er s/pary/party/
(01:59:08) powerman: no?
(01:59:27) uriel: powerman-asdf: and I'm not sure how we can send a patch to fix it, because AFAIK the software to run it is not public
(02:00:11) powerman: yeah, that's possible. but I think charles may make it public (or at least provide it under NDA :)) for people trying to fix maillist lag
(02:00:30) uriel: powerman-asdf: I have had endless arguments with people that claim the list works just fine (usual plan9/inferno denial), see the list archives for some examples (although most was in irc iirc, but this was *years ago*)
(02:00:39) powerman: the lag is really annoying, at least for me
(02:00:41) powerman: yeah, I know
(02:00:57) uriel: the lag is really annoying for everyone that is not totally self-deluded
(02:01:04) powerman: the problem is, people who at beginning of list (i.e. subscribed first) receive emails fast
(02:01:41) uriel: yes, so because they don't have a problem, it must be that everyone else is making up their problems...
(02:01:58) powerman: we already tried, and failed to do so :)
(02:02:08) powerman: so, as I said, only way is fix it ourselves
(02:02:39) uriel: well, i honestly wish you good luck with that... 
(02:06:59) powerman: I may not be the best person to do this, depends on programming language used - if it's limbo/sh/rc I will try, but if it's C - somebody else needed for this work, I didn't used C for too many years to feel myself suitable person for that work.
(02:07:00) ***uriel doubts charles even remembers or is even aware that the list sucks
(02:07:19) powerman: At least I can try to get sources from charles.
(02:07:42) uriel: who knows, without charless cooperation what language is used is rather irrelevant
(02:10:32) uriel: posted about this, for what my comments/opinion is worth, which is about nil in the inferno world
(02:14:36) powerman: I've emailed Charles. Let's see. At least things not become worse because of this. :)
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(04:06:39) anothy_x: wait a minute, the "massive mailing list delays" are "up to half an hour"? wtf? kids these days.
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(04:19:48) powerman: anothy_x: yeah
(04:20:10) powerman: when I posted about this in ml, I provided email headers as proof
(04:25:35) anothy_x: half an hour for a mailing list seems like a rather silly thing to get worked up about. what's the big deal?
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(04:32:07) powerman: anothy_x: hmm, I don't sure I get what you mean
(04:32:21) powerman: if you think that delay is acceptable thing...
(04:32:43) powerman: ... then for me - it isn't
(04:33:00) powerman: actually, only reason I use IRC *at all* is slow inferno maillist
(04:33:16) powerman: I avoided IRC for years before that.
(04:33:59) anothy_x: i guess i just have very different expectations for email. it's inherently asynchronous.
(04:34:30) powerman: also, there a lot of *much* larger maillists (which usually handled using ezmlm) which work just like a charm - about 30 seconds delay to deliver email to all subscribers
(04:34:54) anothy_x: sure, faster is better. i just don't see what the fuss is.
(04:36:03) powerman: hmm
(04:36:55) powerman: when I wrote to maillist, I usually have some problem
(04:37:04) powerman: and want help to solve it
(04:37:46) powerman: writing to inferno maillist mean: 1) most people get my email after 30 minutes; 2) if they reply immediately, I got their reply after a hour
(04:38:23) powerman: 3) if their reply will not answer my question, but instead ask for more details - I got next reply after 2 hours
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(04:40:04) powerman: that's *very* different from way people usually use maillists dedicated to support/discuss some software
(04:40:28) anothy_x: i'm not sure it is. that's consistent with my experience.
(04:40:51) anothy_x: most mailing lists i've been on, it's been "post, check back in an hour or so". email is high latency.
(04:40:56) anothy_x: (generally)
(04:42:32) powerman: maybe we just use different maillists. all maillists I subscribed too are pretty fast, and issues usually solved in a *minutes* (if they solved at all, of course). examples are gentoo-related maillists, djb-like software-related maillists, asciidoc maillist, amarok, mutt...
(04:43:38) powerman: sometimes you have to wait after sending email until competent person will read your email
(04:44:08) powerman: but after that it take just about 20 minutes to exchage 3-4 emails, gather required additional info and solve issue
(04:44:57) powerman: so, inferno maillist speed is honestly annoying and unusual for me
(04:47:11) powerman: and about latency... email usually delivered in about a second. so all latency is usually time needed to read and write reply. that's not high latency. that's not much different from IRC, except size of messages and time needed to type them
(04:48:33) powerman: and, unlike irc, it's much ease to not miss something interesting, keep related topics together, and require less time to use in general
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