Conversation with #inferno at Tue Jul 21 21:34:43 2009 on powerman-asdf@irc.freenode.net (irc) (22:22:38) mennis: Has anyone thought much about how one might make a cocoa bridge for limbo or present a bridge device to inferno? (22:28:51) mjl-: not me. assuming cocoa is the macosx drawing library (22:37:27) maht: mjl- which sort of cocoa bridge have you though about ? (22:40:41) soul9: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2031/3585454135_c03a4fe1cb.jpg?v=0 ← this is the Cocoa Bridge ;) (22:45:45) mennis: Cocoa could be used as TK is only the widgets would be living outside the vm machine. (22:51:05) mjl-: maht: none then. but perhaps cocoa referred to something i did know or had thought about. (22:51:24) mjl-: mennis: examples of limbo language bindings are in libinterp/ (22:51:48) mjl-: e.g. keyring.c, freetype.c, draw.c, math.c (22:52:06) mjl-: writing a module that's backed by c code isn't too hard (22:52:06) mennis: In Mac world quartz correlates (roughly) to draw. (22:53:42) mjl-: do you want to have cocoa along draw? (22:53:55) mjl-: would probably be easier (because less invasive) (22:54:04) mjl-: though still, would be quite some work for something that locks you to mac os x (22:56:34) mennis: I was really thinking of how to leverage the strong widget library of Cacoa against the safety and simplicity of limbo. Leverege and against is the wrong verb/prepostion combo but you know what i mean. (22:57:08) mennis: It would be lock to OS X, your right. (23:02:10) mennis: I guess I am looking at the tk library and thinking it is missing some things that I have come accustomed to. Not just appearance, which I think is largely hobbled by draws lack of mitre, but things like a sortable multicolumn tableview. (23:03:22) mjl-: i agree with that (23:04:11) mjl-: with tk it's mostly that it has been just enough for me personally. doesn't leave much features for future use :) (23:04:24) mjl-: perhaps tk could do with an upgrade. but that's another beast :) (23:24:10) Onime [n=omppu@dsl-104-246.netplaza.fi] entered the room. (23:31:05) mjl-: ok. my ipv6 patch is starting to look reasonable (23:31:26) mjl-: now the detailed testing begins (23:32:00) mjl-: only half a dozen os'es :) (23:32:26) mjl-: i'm still not happy with windows... windows xp won't be supported with it, and would even require separate binaries (from >= vista) (23:32:40) mjl-: but perhaps that's just the way it is (23:32:59) mjl-: (i was starting to think of ugly hacks, but i have to keep some dignity) (23:47:06) mennis: pshaw!! (23:57:08) mjl-: wuh? :) (00:05:39) npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] entered the room. (00:08:04) mtl [i=mtl@pox.fi] entered the room. (00:08:18) mtl left the room. 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(11:29:58) mjl-: good day all (11:30:14) npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] entered the room. (11:33:10) anothy_x [i=none@cpe-76-189-197-62.neo.res.rr.com] entered the room. (11:36:01) anothy_x left the room (quit: Client Quit). (11:42:55) mycroftiv: hello (11:47:10) maht: morning (12:22:44) anothy_x [i=none@cpe-76-189-197-62.neo.res.rr.com] entered the room. (12:22:49) anothy_x left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection). (12:36:08) mjl-: heh, charon shows the dancing kame (12:36:37) mjl-: which also means charon just works™ with ipv6 connections (12:36:41) anothy_x [i=none@cpe-76-189-197-62.neo.res.rr.com] entered the room. (13:28:29) uriel: mjl-: cool (13:28:53) uriel: mjl-: you should post ot 9times about ipv6 in inferno ;) (13:38:22) j123m left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). (13:43:59) j1m1 [n=j1m@unas-228.rsity.ru] entered the room. (14:14:58) stu9 left the room (quit: "leaving"). (14:15:13) stu9_ is now known as stu9 (14:15:47) bjorkintosh: it does ipv6 but does it show lolCats? (14:18:04) maht: sure, if you have lolcatfs installed (14:18:23) bjorkintosh: hah! (14:49:58) j1m1 left the room (quit: "Leaving."). (16:58:04) underspecified [n=eric@220.43.52.7] entered the room. (17:08:08) gualteri left the room (quit: "leaving"). (17:42:13) mennis [n=mennis@adsl-068-016-104-079.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] entered the room. (19:06:07) npe left the room (quit: ). (20:01:27) mennis left the room (quit: Client Quit). (21:19:45) anothy_x left the room (quit: "Leaving."). (22:45:49) npe [n=npe@212.224.219.69] entered the room. (22:46:10) npe left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection). (00:38:59) npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] entered the room. (01:56:17) npe left the room (quit: ). (05:01:46) underspecified left the room (quit: ). (05:11:36) anothy_x [n=a@cpe-76-189-197-62.neo.res.rr.com] entered the room. 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(18:01:17) eno__ is now known as eno (18:08:34) anss1 left the room (quit: hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). (18:22:28) anss1 [n=app@192.98.33.9] entered the room. (18:32:27) mennis_: what s the equivalent to seq for shell scripting inferno in sh? (18:33:58) uriel: i think there is an enum or seq or something like that module (18:34:43) mennis_: Someone else told me but ftr its in sh-expr. (18:34:45) mennis_: Thanks (18:35:08) mjl-: jups (18:35:10) mjl-: ; load expr; echo ${expr 4 10 seq} (18:36:43) uriel: damn, now that I had found seq in: http://man.cat-v.org/inferno/1/sh-expr (18:36:50) uriel: mjl-: you are too fast! (18:36:51) uriel: ;P (18:36:58) uriel: mjl-: btw, did you get tickets for har? (18:37:52) mjl-: jups, i have a ticket :) (18:41:54) mjl-: all tickets sold out just after the date where they would raise the price. (18:42:13) mjl-: my guess is that people (such as myself) bought a ticket just before that happened. (18:50:58) uriel: you should sell it on ebay no then :) (18:55:42) eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-145-107.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] entered the room. (18:55:56) eno left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). (19:33:06) eno__ is now known as eno (20:05:16) npe_ left the room (quit: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). (20:44:01) j123m left the room (quit: "Leaving."). (21:54:39) anothy_x [n=a@69-218-150-41.otcerie.clydohxa.wayport.net] entered the room. (21:58:37) anothy_x left the room (quit: Client Quit). (23:12:55) mennis_ is now known as mennit (23:13:10) mennit is now known as mennis (23:21:08) megaboz [i=none@201.80.224.28] entered the room. (04:50:17) mennis left the room (quit: ). (06:12:05) bjorkintosh left the room (quit: hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). (06:12:56) bjorkintosh [n=bjork@ip72-204-40-138.fv.ks.cox.net] entered the room. (06:21:18) bjorkintosh left the room (quit: hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). (06:22:10) bjorkintosh [n=bjork@ip72-204-40-138.fv.ks.cox.net] entered the room. (06:56:41) eno__ [n=eno@adsl-70-137-145-107.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] entered the room. (06:57:18) eno left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). (07:39:48) maht left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). (07:40:04) maht [n=maht__@85.189.31.174.proweb.managedbroadband.co.uk] entered the room. (09:31:35) j1m [n=j1m@unas-228.rsity.ru] entered the room. (09:39:51) j1m is now known as j123m (09:42:05) Fish [n=Fish@AVelizy-152-1-81-1.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr] entered the room. (11:01:57) robot12 [n=robot12@inferno.kgts.ru] entered the room. (11:04:23) npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] entered the room. (11:04:57) robot12: hi all (11:05:11) robot12: I'm trying to build latest inferno under 9vx... but ... mkroot generates emu.root.h with null size :( (11:17:22) visof [n=visof@41.238.233.233] entered the room. (11:18:18) visof left the room (quit: "Leaving"). (11:18:31) visof [n=visof@41.238.233.233] entered the room. (11:26:42) visof left the room (quit: "Leaving"). (11:27:15) visof [n=visof@41.238.233.233] entered the room. (11:31:24) visof left the room (quit: Client Quit). (11:31:47) visof [n=visof@41.238.233.233] entered the room. (11:59:07) mjl-: robot12: do you know why that happens? is it crashing? (12:01:15) robot12: awk .... (12:01:51) mjl-: awk crashes? (12:02:06) mjl-: or is it just producing bogus results? (12:02:31) mjl-: anyway, perhaps not too easy to fix. you can probably work around it by makeing the emu.root.h on the host os... (12:02:46) mjl-: pretty funny, to run 9vx (emulation) and then inferno (emution too) in it (12:03:49) robot12: Yes .... (12:04:07) robot12: but on host Linux it work ! (12:04:30) robot12: and emu.root.h is not empty (12:05:34) mjl-: so i guess that means 9vx' awk is broken? (12:05:40) mjl-: or something (12:10:20) gualteri [n=unknown@crespins.disca.upv.es] entered the room. (12:11:32) robot12: hmm (12:12:38) robot12: I've copy awk from plan9 cd ... with no luck :( (12:13:55) mjl-: oh, there is no awk at all? (12:14:12) robot12: it exist ... (12:14:15) mjl-: i would think the awk just wouldn't run right on 9vx. perhaps using too much memory or something (12:14:22) robot12: but ... something ... (12:14:41) mjl-: yeah, but i would expect nothing is wrong with the binary itself. just the execution of it under 9vx (12:15:19) robot12: hmmm i'll download (12:33:22) robot12: emu work fine :) I builded it with emu.root.h from Lunix directory (12:34:12) robot12: no so fast .... (12:41:55) uriel: robot12: if awk is messing up, that probably means floating point issues (12:42:15) uriel: 9vx is probably messing up the fp registers somehow or something (12:42:26) uriel: email 9fans about it, I'm sure russ will be happy to help (12:44:15) robot12: thx (12:45:46) uriel: (although I'm surprised that if awk is borked nothing else breaks on 9vx...) (12:49:20) robot12: hmmm may be nobody uses it :) (13:07:27) visof left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection). (14:32:05) visof [n=visof@41.238.232.33] entered the room. (14:39:46) robot12 left the room (quit: "Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)"). (15:07:57) visof left the room (quit: "Leaving"). (15:24:56) visof [n=visof@41.238.232.107] entered the room. (16:32:13) visof left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection). (16:49:13) visof [n=visof@41.238.232.107] entered the room. (16:54:21) gualteri left the room (quit: "leaving"). (16:55:55) mennis [n=mennis@adsl-155-181-102.asm.bellsouth.net] entered the room. (16:56:30) mennis: Is there an avl tree implementation around for limbo already? (17:00:07) megaboz left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). (17:32:54) mennis left the room. (17:50:27) visof left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). (18:25:11) mennis [n=mennis@adsl-068-016-104-079.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] entered the room. (18:52:57) mjl-: mennis: i remember someone implemented various such algorithms. eg red black trees. perhaps avl was also implemented. would be somewhere in the mail archives. (18:53:45) mennis: Thanks. I take a look. (19:05:30) npe left the room (quit: ). (19:06:10) npe [n=npe@195.207.5.2] entered the room. (19:11:26) npe left the room (quit: Operation timed out). (19:34:07) eno__ is now known as eno (20:33:16) Fish left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection). (20:33:24) Fish [n=Fish@AVelizy-152-1-81-1.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr] entered the room. (22:09:15) j123m left the room (quit: "Leaving."). (23:27:26) npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] entered the room. (00:07:08) npe left the room (quit: ). (00:37:35) Fish left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection). (00:42:13) mennis left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). (06:33:53) vsrinivas [i=me@rose.makesad.us] entered the room. (07:32:19) megaboz [i=none@201.80.224.28] entered the room. (09:05:31) Fish [n=Fish@AVelizy-152-1-81-1.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr] entered the room. (09:11:37) Fish left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection). (09:11:47) Fish [n=Fish@AVelizy-152-1-81-1.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr] entered the room. (09:24:48) npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] entered the room. (11:13:28) j1m [n=j1m@unas-228.rsity.ru] entered the room. (11:13:54) j1m is now known as j123m (14:13:42) uriel: mjl-: hah, just found out PDF supports embeding *flash* into a document (14:57:28) mjl-: what good is a file format if it cannot embed the popular format du jour? (15:00:12) uriel: sadly flash is more than 'the popular format du jour' it is the disease of the decade (15:05:13) Fish left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection). (20:01:35) eno left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). (20:06:57) eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] entered the room. (20:32:44) gualteri1 [n=salva@84.123.138.76.dyn.user.ono.com] entered the room. (20:36:25) jaredj [n=jaredj@ip98-183-39-186.pn.at.cox.net] entered the room. (20:49:48) gualteri1 left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). (21:37:47) j123m left the room (quit: "Leaving."). (21:41:03) j1m [n=jim@unas-228.rsity.ru] entered the room. (21:41:14) j1m is now known as j123m (21:53:22) stevie77de [i=none@e178211228.adsl.alicedsl.de] entered the room. (23:35:00) Fish [n=Fish@AVelizy-152-1-81-1.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr] entered the room. (00:04:22) maht: uriel : did you find out because there's an exploit in the wild that uses that combo to infect ? (00:06:01) maht: It's called Adobe Reader because it lets people read anything in your adobe (00:06:42) maht: its like Herpes and Aids got together and had a baby and called it Flash-PDF (00:10:20) Fish left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection). (00:19:53) maht: blimey, my inferno is soooo slow, 800mhz machine, running p9, 1000x800 wm window takes 5s to resize an acme window (00:21:27) maht: and minimizing acme doesnt work ! (00:22:24) maht: its really messed up :( (00:25:30) vsrinivas: maht: what graphics card? (00:25:45) maht: drawterm (01:43:29) npe left the room (quit: ). (01:46:57) npe [n=npe@94-224-251-223.access.telenet.be] entered the room. (01:48:03) stu9: infernospaces - what was that exactly? (01:48:54) stu9: from the paragraph or so that I can see about them here on an ancient news article, it seems to be styx and namespaces on windows/lunix/mac without an actual inferno - right? (01:49:10) stu9: and why was it discontinued? (01:55:27) maht: I'd never heard of it until then (01:55:45) maht: here's a press relase from when Lucent were looking to sell Inferno http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CGN/is_3611/ai_54142014/ (01:55:59) maht: perhaps VI just didn't care about java and jini (01:57:05) maht: "InfernoSpaces source code will be available in the third quarter" - sounds like vapour to me (01:58:25) maht: http://9fans.net/archive/2000/05/54 (01:58:34) maht: but you probbaly did a search already :> (01:59:41) stu9: yes, that thread is where I heard of them first. (01:59:43) maht: sounds right about the time the tech bubble burst and Lucent when to shit (01:59:54) maht: s/when/went (02:00:38) stu9: I was looking what was the first use of `cloud computing' on 9fans, came across that thread (or rather, its fork, `the future of plan 9') (02:00:51) maht: http://www.lucent-inferno.com/ hehehe rock & roll (02:01:30) stu9: wtf (02:02:03) stu9: (the thread doesn't mention cloud computing by the way, it just uses cloud as a verb but the subject caught my eye so I read up) (02:02:07) maht: http://ai.ijs.si/mezi/agents/agents.html I followed the link from there (02:40:06) stevie77de left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). (02:50:00) jas_ [n=jas@adsl-69-215-39-41.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net] entered the room. (02:51:45) vsrinivas: oh :( (02:51:49) vsrinivas: inferno sam is ugly... (02:53:06) jas_ left the room (quit: Client Quit). (02:56:26) jas left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). (03:31:01) jaredj left the room (quit: "leaving"). (04:33:46) vsrinivas: is there something like styxlisten on inferno that auths against a p9 auth server instead of doing the styx auth stuff? (04:52:09) uriel: 21:04 < maht> uriel : did you find out because there's an exploit in the wild that uses that combo to infect ? (04:52:12) uriel: yes :) (04:52:26) uriel: 21:06 < maht> its like Herpes and Aids got together and had a baby and called it Flash-PDF (04:52:30) uriel: hahaha (04:53:06) uriel: maht: inferno has *never* played nice with drawterm in my experience (04:53:27) uriel: something really stinks on inferno graphics (on plan9, on osx and on linux, on windows it sort of works) (05:42:33) anothy_x [n=a@host-69-48-6-234.roc.choiceone.net] entered the room. (07:00:45) anothy_x left the room (quit: "Leaving."). (08:46:43) j123m left the room. (09:06:50) bjorkintosh left the room (quit: hubbard.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). (09:32:20) bjorkintosh [n=bjork@ip72-204-40-138.fv.ks.cox.net] entered the room. (10:21:51) j1m [n=j1m@unas-228.rsity.ru] entered the room. (10:22:07) j1m is now known as j123m (11:42:58) Fish [n=Fish@AVelizy-152-1-81-1.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr] entered the room. (13:11:29) Fish left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection). (13:12:14) Fish [n=Fish@AVelizy-152-1-81-1.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr] entered the room. (14:16:08) j123m left the room (quit: "Leaving."). (14:17:58) j1m [n=jim@unas-228.rsity.ru] entered the room. (14:18:11) j1m is now known as j123m (14:57:40) mjl-: vsrinivas: i was thinking about your question on authentication (from the mailing list) (14:58:42) mjl-: it's probably possible to write a 9p/styx wrapper that takes care of authentication in the attach/auth messages. but it would mean copying the 9p messages around... (14:59:05) mjl-: for your case, it might be easier to just modify the kfs to do auth. not too pretty, all apps would require such support then... 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(23:50:19) maht [n=maht__@85.189.31.174.proweb.managedbroadband.co.uk] entered the room. (00:09:21) fgergo [n=fgergo@host-79-121-68-27.supraktv.hu] entered the room. (00:10:18) fgergo: /help (00:15:06) fgergo: /who (00:15:08) fgergo: /WHO (00:16:30) fgergo: /LIST (00:18:07) fgergo: I don't seem to be an expert user in airc. How can I see who is here? (00:18:56) fgergo: Sorry about the noise. I have found Who. (00:20:03) fgergo: Q: Is anybody here using inferno on xp? (00:20:26) soul9: szia :) (00:20:32) fgergo: heló. (00:20:46) soul9: sorry tho, not using on xp (00:20:50) soul9: having any problems? (00:21:13) fgergo: bind '#UC:/' /n/local (00:21:19) fgergo: ls /n/local (00:21:52) soul9: huh? are you sure that '#UC:/' is the right thing to bind? never seen any hash device name (00:22:26) fgergo: ls: Readdir: .: A művelet sikeresen befejeződött. (00:22:28) soul9: what do you want to do? (00:22:40) soul9: what is '#UC:/' then? (00:22:42) vsrinivas: fgergo: do you mean '#U*C:/' (00:22:49) soul9: ah, yeah (00:22:56) soul9: yeah, that should be more like it (00:23:35) fgergo: And that's all. The hungarian xp message means in english: the operation complete succesfully (00:23:57) fgergo: vs: (00:24:00) fgergo: I'll try (00:25:26) fgergo: vs: bind: #U*C:/: bad attach specifier (00:25:49) fgergo: I'd like to list c:\ (00:25:58) vsrinivas: fgergo: strange, in unix it is #U*/ for the fs root (00:26:14) soul9: fgergo: did you try just "#U*" ? (00:26:20) soul9: er s/"/' (00:26:21) fgergo: if I bind #UC:/tmp it lists c:\tmp perfectly (00:27:06) fgergo: soul9: same bind erro message (00:27:34) fgergo: vs: yes. (00:27:44) soul9: so maybe it's just '#UC:'? (00:28:59) fgergo: that's what I tried first. Since the man page say so and I remembered doing it this way years ago. (00:29:04) fgergo: no luck (00:29:19) soul9: hmm, then i guess a bug. is this acme-sac? (00:29:26) fgergo: bind completes, but ls gives the same error message (00:29:34) fgergo: no acme-sac is fine. (00:29:44) fgergo: no, acme-sac is working fine. (00:30:16) vsrinivas: oh, cool, a bug (00:30:55) mjl-: somehow that bug sounds familiar (00:31:02) mjl-: but i haven't had it here. (00:31:14) mjl-: does other disk drives work? eg #Ue:/ (00:31:43) fgergo: no more drives, sorry (00:31:55) soul9: does ls '#UC:/' work? ☺ (00:32:36) soul9: well, here '#U' is the inferno root :-/ (00:32:37) fgergo: it sounded similar to me as well, first I thought ls did not like file names with spaces, but if I create "a b.txt" in tmp, it lists fine. (00:33:11) fgergo: can anybody confirm this on xp? (00:34:59) mjl-: i'll give it a try, hang on (00:35:05) fgergo: thanks. (00:36:00) fgergo: soul9: same result, as with succesfull bind (00:36:16) soul9: ok (00:37:26) mjl-: fgergo: it works here (00:37:42) mjl-: do you have the permissions to go into /n/local? (00:38:03) fgergo: mjl: 1. thanks. 2. I'll try. (00:39:45) mjl-: interestingly, i can even bind non-existent drive letters... (00:39:49) mjl-: or cd into them (00:39:53) mjl-: eg cd '#Ux:/' (00:39:59) mjl-: then ls simply shows no files. (00:40:06) mjl-: do you have the latest code? (00:40:24) fgergo: permissions are fine. I can read, write /n/local (00:41:21) fgergo: no, actually it's quite old: cat /dev/sysctl reads: Fourth Edition (20071003). (00:41:48) mjl-: ahh, then perhaps it sounds familiar because something about it has been on the mailing list or in the changelog (00:41:51) fgergo: I'll download the latest install tomorrow. (00:42:03) fgergo: I'll check. brb (00:47:16) fgergo: mjl: what do you get if you do ls '#UC:/Program Files' ? (00:49:34) fgergo: rog asked a similar question, but without answers as far as I can see. (00:49:46) mjl-: that works too (00:49:49) fgergo: o (00:49:50) fgergo: ok (00:50:00) fgergo: than somebody obviuosly already fixed it. (00:50:02) mjl-: it is case sensitive (00:50:25) mjl-: so ls '#UC:/program files' does not work. bet that is ntfs (00:50:35) mjl-: the drive letter is case insensitive though (00:50:36) fgergo: I'll check with the latest image tomorrow. (00:50:49) fgergo: Thanks everybody, for your help! (00:51:08) mjl-: good luck tomorrow! (00:54:08) npe left the room (quit: ). (00:57:05) fgergo: bye (00:57:20) fgergo left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). (01:14:08) vsrinivas left the room. (02:01:52) underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] entered the room. (02:04:34) underspecified_ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] entered the room. (02:09:31) underspecified left the room (quit: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). (02:11:20) underspecified [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] entered the room. (02:13:44) underspecified__ [n=eric@softbank220043052007.bbtec.net] entered the room. 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