Conversation with #inferno at Sat Mar 6 16:39:30 2010 on powerman-asdf@irc.freenode.net (irc) (16:39:35) j123m left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 246 seconds). (16:40:21) powerman-asdf left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer). (16:40:55) j123m [~quassel@94.190.64.110] entered the room. (17:13:27) j123m left the room (quit: Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). (17:13:41) j123m [~quassel@94.190.64.110] entered the room. (18:01:50) less1 [~pravin@cpe-66-68-151-36.austin.res.rr.com] entered the room. (18:14:05) j123m left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 246 seconds). (18:15:25) j123m [~quassel@94.190.64.110] entered the room. (18:58:15) j123m_ [~quassel@94.190.64.110] entered the room. (18:58:42) j123m left the room (quit: Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). (19:12:29) j123m [~quassel@94.190.64.110] entered the room. (19:13:45) j123m_ left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 256 seconds). (20:04:07) j123m left the room (quit: Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.). 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(05:36:58) chris_ is now known as sparc (05:43:28) sparc: half the fun of reading about Inferno, are all the nicely themes names (05:43:33) sparc: *themed (05:43:35) sparc: hehe (05:43:47) sparc: i dig the styx port 6666 (05:43:52) sparc: funny :P (05:52:10) anth_x: in the Inferno BU we tried to name all our servers similarly. it got hard to think of enough after a while. (05:52:56) sparc: i bet :o/ (05:53:06) sparc: good try tho, i guess (10:23:01) less1 left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving.). (10:27:02) bvalek2 [~c11a2f4b@gateway/web/freenode/x-hrphdgntaweitgpw] entered the room. (10:33:41) wrtp [~rog@89.241.130.254] entered the room. (13:35:50) mkn [~7c7cdbfa@gateway/web/freenode/x-mrmbzrlkgpebgyrt] entered the room. (13:57:15) mkn left the room (quit: Quit: Page closed). (14:43:23) adelfino [~username@200.80.164.60] entered the room. (14:43:55) adelfino left the room (quit: Client Quit). (15:50:31) adelfino [~username@200.80.164.60] entered the room. (15:51:55) adelfino left the room (quit: Client Quit). (15:53:00) adelfino [~username@200.80.164.60] entered the room. (15:53:06) adelfino left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer). (15:55:09) mennis_ [~mennis@adsl-065-012-170-146.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] entered the room. (15:59:24) adelfino [~username@200.80.164.60] entered the room. (15:59:41) adelfino left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer). (16:05:52) bvalek2 left the room (quit: Quit: Page closed). (16:15:21) mjl-: wrtp: do you know why the vectored pwrite/pread are not syscalls? (16:15:26) mjl-: sorry for the late response :) (16:15:34) wrtp: np (16:15:37) mjl-: i was a bit busy in between (16:15:46) wrtp: why do they need to be syscalls? (16:16:01) mjl-: probably for efficiency (16:16:08) mjl-: but perhaps that's not a valid reason (16:16:22) mjl-: i'm thinking of being able to use scatter/gather dma (16:16:26) mjl-: e.g. when writing a network packet (16:16:49) mjl-: pwritev on plan 9 seems to malloc & memmove vectors, then pwrite it (16:17:12) wrtp: i think the usual case for it is so that you can have header & body allocated separately (16:17:14) mjl-: perhaps that isn't really inefficient, though when moving large amounts of data it could be... (16:17:32) wrtp: but you'd have to measure it to see if it was really more efficient (16:17:40) mjl-: yeah (16:18:00) wrtp: i suppose it saves a copy (16:18:18) wrtp: did you want to use them? (16:18:30) mjl-: no, not really (16:18:32) mjl-: i was just wondering (16:18:37) wrtp: fair enough (16:18:42) mjl-: well, i'm going to take a shot at a sata driver for the sheevaplug (16:18:50) mjl-: and that can do scatter/gather dma (16:18:55) mjl-: so that's why i thought of it (16:18:57) wrtp: i see (16:19:00) mjl-: i did a rough ethernet driver before (16:19:23) wrtp: to do it properly in plan 9 you'd have to add a new driver entry point (16:19:32) wrtp: along the lines of bread/bwrite (16:19:37) mjl-: and i've implemented an nfs server, which has header + body packets. so i had all the pieces to start questioning :) (16:19:49) mjl-: yeah, that makes sense (16:20:01) wrtp: so you'd have to change *all* the drivers... (16:20:16) mjl-: true... (16:20:43) mjl-: the common case would be just a wrapper around the normal read/write (16:21:01) mjl-: but i'll leave it for when i really think i need it :P (16:21:08) wrtp: i suppose the library interface is a placeholder so that if it's decided later to add an entry point, it's easy to do, and user code will reap the benefit (16:21:41) wrtp: depends if you need to allocate the header separately from the body (16:21:56) wrtp: common case is just to make the header a slice view onto the entire package (16:22:00) wrtp: s/package/packet/ (16:22:23) mjl-: i suppose that would work (16:23:02) mjl-: for eg response packets to nfs reads, you can make a buffer the size of header+data, then fill the header, then read the data from disk in the body part, then write the whole buffer (16:23:21) wrtp: yup (16:23:25) wrtp: if the header is fixed size (16:23:30) mjl-: oh, the tcp stack would copy anyway (16:23:31) wrtp: and the body can't be too big (16:23:54) wrtp: i don't think the tcp stack will copy (after the write syscall) (16:24:39) mjl-: hmm, doesn't it queue? (16:25:56) mjl-: oh, for generic vectored i/o, i was also wondering if the various dma controllers don't require eg 4k page alignment or something like that (16:26:06) mjl-: probably at least various by architecture (16:26:21) mjl-: and at least word-size alignment doesn't sound too far fetched (16:26:46) mjl-: but then how would that work with array of byte in limbo (16:26:56) mennis_: mjl-: Your nfs implementation was in inferno or plan9? (16:27:27) mjl-: inferno (16:27:35) mennis_: interesting. (16:27:38) mjl-: http://www.ueber.net/code/r/nfssrv (16:27:52) mjl-: there is an nfs client (nfsfs) in there despite the name (16:28:05) mjl-: i have not used it really heavily btw, be warned ;) (16:28:16) mennis_: :) (16:29:24) mjl-: i did find two performance problems/bugs in openbsd's nfs client with nfssrv though (16:31:05) mennis_: That reminds me, only vaguely, of a friend who found a bunch of bugs in his code by porting it from C to oberon. 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(19:45:10) digijohn [~digi@cpe-72-230-244-190.rochester.res.rr.com] entered the room. (19:45:23) digijohn: got a quick problem here, I've run into it before but don't remember the solution (19:45:35) digijohn: when I run Inferno on Plan 9, /net starts out empty (19:45:55) digijohn: I recall the solution was something along the lines of just binding in Plan 9's /net directly, but I forget how you do it (19:46:32) mjl-: bind '#U*/net' /net (19:46:33) mjl-: probably (19:46:53) mjl-: or maybe without the * after #U (19:46:54) digijohn: #U*, ok (19:47:04) digijohn: that's the missing thing (19:48:03) digijohn: yes, that did the trick, thanks (19:49:08) vsrinivas [~me@rose.makesad.us] entered the room. (19:50:51) vsrinivas: hiya (19:57:38) digijohn left the room ("Leaving"). (20:18:30) less1 [~pravin@32.97.110.64] entered the room. (20:39:17) adelfino left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving). (22:27:08) bvalek2 [~bela@unaffiliated/bvalek2] entered the room. (22:49:07) mennis_ left the room. 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(21:48:15) s_justin: What would my tk bind command look like if I wanted to bind to a Page Down keypress? (21:56:28) mjl-: s_justin: sprint("bind .e ...", Keyboard->Pgdown); (21:56:42) mjl-: keyboard.m (21:59:51) s_justin: thanks! (22:03:33) bvalek2 left the room (quit: Quit: I've seen things you people wouldn't believe). (22:20:34) less1 left the room (quit: Read error: Operation timed out). (22:35:05) less1 [~pravin@32.97.110.63] entered the room. (23:03:57) vsrinivas| [~me@c-68-50-218-93.hsd1.md.comcast.net] entered the room. (23:04:10) vsrinivas left the room (quit: Quit: leaving). (23:04:18) vsrinivas| is now known as vsrinivas (00:03:48) wrtp left the room (quit: Quit: wrtp). (00:53:20) jmpnz left the room (quit: Quit: jmpnz). (01:22:56) s_justin left the room (quit: Quit: s_justin). (01:57:37) less1 left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving.). (03:16:22) mennis [~mennis@adsl-065-012-170-146.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] entered the room. 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