Conversation with #inferno at Wed Jan  5 11:51:16 2011 on powerman-asdf@irc.freenode.net (irc)
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(22:42:31) GriffenJBS: has anyone here played with inferno-ds?
(22:43:07) mjl-: yes, but not in a while
(22:43:18) mjl-: i did a bit of development too
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(22:44:58) GriffenJBS: I've hit a bit of a problem, and am not sure what to do next, using r175, the ds starts and all I get is two white screens.
(22:45:46) mjl-: hmm
(22:46:03) mjl-: which card thingie do you have, r4ds?
(22:46:43) GriffenJBS: ttds
(22:46:45) mjl-: i have a ttds (iirc), and the inferno-ds flash-reading code doesn't work with that.  so i _think_ i needed to disable it
(22:47:04) GriffenJBS: ttds doesn't use dldi?
(22:47:10) GriffenJBS: err inferno doesn't use it?
(22:47:12) mjl-: it does, but inferno-ds doesn't
(22:47:14) mjl-: exactly
(22:47:22) GriffenJBS: ...
(22:47:27) mjl-: i think inferno-ds has code for the r4ds
(22:47:41) GriffenJBS: any idea why not?
(22:48:31) mjl-: support wasn't written.  i think it was attempted, but inferno's compilers have different calling conventions, so some more register saving/restoring/mangling has to be done
(22:49:01) GriffenJBS: so .. how do I disable it?
(22:49:15) mjl-: recompiling a kernel would be best
(22:49:42) GriffenJBS: :-) that's where I just got stuck at, and decided to find help
(22:50:12) GriffenJBS: I have inferno running on a pc, seems fine and well, following the iDS INSTALL file I'm getting several errors
(22:50:13) mjl-: it shouldn't be too hard, especially when you're on a unix machine
(22:50:52) mjl-: can you paste them somewhere?
(22:52:29) GriffenJBS: when running mk from the ds src root it complains that mkconfig is missing, so I copied the one from root in, and tried again
(22:54:13) mjl-: the ds src root, that is os/ds/, right?
(22:54:51) GriffenJBS: I change the root to match and try mk again and then "sh: rcsh: './rcsh' file does not exist"
(22:54:57) GriffenJBS: yes os/ds
(22:55:23) GriffenJBS: I put it in /usr/inferno/os/ds as per the instructions
(22:55:24) mjl-: heh, that rcsh does not ring any bell
(22:55:37) mjl-: ok, and your inferno install is in /usr/inferno, right?
(22:55:56) mjl-: the mkfile in os/ds includes "<../../mkconfig", so it's a bit weird if it can't find the mkconfig
(22:56:57) GriffenJBS: the inferno install? it's on a windows box at c:\inferno
(22:58:01) mjl-: ah, ok
(22:58:12) mjl-: so what did you do with "/usr/inferno/os/ds"
(22:58:33) mjl-: you need to have the ds directory as c:\inferno\os\ds
(22:58:48) mjl-: so, INFERNO=c:\inferno
(22:58:53) mjl-: and better also set ROOT=c:\inferno
(22:59:20) GriffenJBS: ..? won't that cause errors at the inferno prompt?
(22:59:40) GriffenJBS: or does mk not use the inferno fs but rather the win fs?
(23:02:20) mjl-: mk is a native inferno program, so it has to use the win fs
(23:02:26) GriffenJBS: did mv /usr/inferno/os/ds /os/ and did mk again, same error, but this time it says ./rc not found
(23:03:07) mjl-: i'll get my window machine to try to reproduce it.  do have the latest svn code right?
(23:03:30) GriffenJBS: latest public
(23:04:07) GriffenJBS: browsing the svn shows rev192, latest public is 175
(23:05:57) GriffenJBS: ... nvm, svn update says 192
(23:08:50) mjl-: ok, it starts compiling here without problem
(23:09:02) mjl-: but then give c syntax error
(23:09:05) GriffenJBS: :-/
(23:09:07) mjl-: so something is different at least
(23:09:08) GriffenJBS: lol
(23:09:28) GriffenJBS: I'd rather fix problems one at a time
(23:09:32) mjl-: i didn't set INFERNO oR ROOT vars btw
(23:09:38) mjl-: me too :)
(23:10:14) mjl-: oh, i see ROOT is set in c:\inferno, to c:/inferno
(23:10:33) mjl-: which inferno did you get btw?
(23:10:52) mjl-: the one from the vitanuova.com website?  that's what i have at least (and the best thing to get to my knowledge)
(23:11:51) GriffenJBS: googlecode.com
(23:14:07) mjl-: ok, do you have a c:\inferno\Nt\386\rcsh.exe?
(23:14:32) mjl-: i think you need to change your path, something like setenv PATH %PATH%;c:\inferno\Nt\386\bin
(23:14:45) mjl-: or set
(23:15:04) GriffenJBS: there is a .../Nt/386/bin/rcsh.exe
(23:15:43) mjl-: yeah, that's in c:/inferno/Nt/386/bin/ right?
(23:15:57) GriffenJBS: side question, any way to kill wm/wm without exiting emu?
(23:16:16) mjl-: the command on the dos prompt would be:  set PATH=%PATH%;c:\inferno\Nt\386\bin
(23:16:28) mjl-: about wm/wm, not really
(23:16:42) mjl-: you can look at the ps(1) output, and kill the right progs
(23:17:00) mjl-: i sometimes start wm/wm &, then you keep the console
(23:17:10) mjl-: and then it's easier to kill until all is gone
(23:17:21) mjl-: it's annoying if you only killed half of wm/wm :)
(23:17:29) GriffenJBS: I've been trying with & but hitting the x on the window seems to term emu, strange
(23:18:46) mjl-: ah, i see that here too
(23:18:53) mjl-: the emu lives on for a few more seconds
(23:18:57) mjl-: and lets you even run a command
(23:18:59) mjl-: but then quits
(23:20:02) mjl-: you can kill all the progs except pid 1 (Sh), and then start another wm/wm
(23:20:05) mjl-: that seems to work here
(23:20:21) mjl-: the window will stay, and turn white with wm/wm killed
(23:20:41) GriffenJBS: I've tried setting INFERNO=C:\inferno from the dos prompt and then restarting wm/wm and shell and then mk
(23:21:01) mjl-: oh!  the mk has to run from the dos box!
(23:21:08) GriffenJBS: ...?
(23:21:16) mjl-: well, for the os/ds stuff
(23:21:37) GriffenJBS: strange the INSTALL doc shows it with a %% looking like it should be run within inferno
(23:21:37) mjl-: because it uses its own c compilers, and those are only available in native binaries, not within inferno
(23:22:03) mjl-: you're right, that isn't very clear...
(23:22:15) mjl-: ok, very unclear :)
(23:22:23) mjl-: i'll see if i can change that wording
(23:22:26) GriffenJBS: lol, now trying MK at the prompt
(23:23:07) GriffenJBS: mk == mk all right?
(23:23:28) mjl-: yes :)
(23:23:51) GriffenJBS: either way I get a lovely msg from windows 5a.exe has stopped working
(23:25:53) mjl-: crashed?
(23:26:37) mjl-: if it really crashed, you should get the latest inferno version from http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/downloads.html
(23:26:40) GriffenJBS: yeah, but it must have made some progress, running mk again it's skips 5a and tries 5c.exe which does the same thing
(23:27:42) GriffenJBS: that's the PC version I have
(23:27:51) GriffenJBS: the ds is googlecode
(23:29:37) mjl-: which error did you get?
(23:29:51) mjl-: i get an error about Inferno/arm/lib/libinterp.a, and that it cannot create it
(23:29:58) GriffenJBS: mk clean, then mk, and 5a.exe stopped
(23:30:00) mjl-: that's because the dir Inferno/arm/lib doesn't exist, you must create it
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(23:49:30) mjl-: ok, i've been able to compile a kernel, without the dldi stuff in it.  but it still gives white blank screens.
(23:49:36) mjl-: trying older versions could help...
(23:49:51) mjl-: it is much too hard to get it going...
(23:52:29) mjl-: GriffenJBS: have you tried the other, older .nds files at inferno-ds' googlecode download page?
(23:52:40) mjl-: not that that helps you compile your own kernel...
(23:56:35) GriffenJBS: it's in the ds, but have yet to power it up
(23:57:10) GriffenJBS: I kept running mk and it kept going one step farther each time, until it finally stopped progressing
(23:57:35) GriffenJBS: 'c:/inferno/Inferno/arm/lib/libinterp.a doesn't exist'
(23:58:57) GriffenJBS: r165 same white two screens nothing else
(23:59:13) mjl-: i have a file that should do more, i can put it online
(23:59:58) mjl-: you should make the directory c:/inferno/Inferno/arm/lib
(00:00:02) mjl-: it's inferno's fault...
(00:00:23) vsrinivas: its always infernos fault :D
(00:00:52) mjl-: noooooooes
(00:02:25) mjl-: anything up lately vsrinivas ?
(00:08:15) mjl-: http://www.ueber.net/who/mjl/tmp/isdsx.nds <- image that starts an (old) inferno with graphics and a few programs
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(00:09:55) GriffenJBS: mjl any networking in there?
(00:10:02) mjl-: nopes
(00:10:17) GriffenJBS: :-/ that's the key I'm looking for
(00:17:04) vsrinivas: mjl-: not too much ; no plan9 or inferno stuff for a while.
(00:17:09) GriffenJBS: did you try isdsx.nds?
(00:17:51) vsrinivas: mjl-: last thing wsa the gps/serial/mesh code ....
(00:20:27) mjl-: GriffenJBS: the isdsx.nds came from my sd card that was in the ttds, i could boot it
(00:20:47) mjl-: vsrinivas: bummer
(00:20:52) mjl-: i've had some time for inferno lately
(00:21:03) mjl-: have been writing some code too, currently working on a window manager
(00:21:07) GriffenJBS: ttds launches it but just the two white screens, moonshells says it's the wrong format
(00:21:22) mjl-: it's turning out to be acme-with-keyboard-shortcuts
(00:21:45) GriffenJBS: mjl, defined or configureable shortcuts?
(00:21:47) mjl-: GriffenJBS: i'm starting it from the ttds launcher.  perhaps something is going wrong with downloading?
(00:21:56) GriffenJBS: perhaps
(00:22:02) mjl-: GriffenJBS: hardcoded
(00:22:49) mjl-: vi-like movements between windows, with ^q as modifier (can't easily portably) get to modifiers such as alt, plus the x11 wm will eat those)
(00:22:52) mjl-: -)
(00:23:26) mjl-: GriffenJBS: fwiw, the sha1 of the file should be 5240bab7bc74bdaeb240da59e15074ecb40f3aa7
(00:23:50) GriffenJBS: :-) where is my sha2md5 converter
(00:24:07) mjl-: do you want the md5? :)
(00:24:32) GriffenJBS: if you have it handy
(00:24:33) mjl-: 912186f7876218c2854785ccb417c038
(00:24:42) mjl-: sha256 56a5dd5ce2dbeaac6d3b6331d2047ec4ecab58b9670290a2130f0fc6f47cca9b, while we're at it
(00:24:47) GriffenJBS: show off
(00:25:15) GriffenJBS: :-) too bad you don't know how hard I'm laughing, I appreciate the help
(00:28:41) mjl-: heh
(01:02:23) GriffenJBS: I've tried all 3 again, formatted the card, updated the ttds software, still the same results
(01:02:38) GriffenJBS: ps the md5 was the same
(01:17:01) mjl-: that's weird...
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(18:01:54) GriffenJBS: Where can I find step by step instructions to build inferno on windows?
(18:15:01) GriffenJBS: mk keeps saying "limbo: file not found"  that's a problem right?
(18:15:45) GriffenJBS: mk exits on geom.c, I'm using cl.exe version 15.00.30729.01 and it seems to choke trying to compile geom.c
(18:23:14) GriffenJBS: well I made it farther, but this seems to have me stuck http://pastebin.com/S9nKV1H4
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(18:31:11) GriffenJBS: geom.c and crypt.c were both messing up because limbo wasn't found, mk was creating 0 byte header files, ... so what's wrong with limbo?
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(18:57:36) anth_x: what's your path?
(18:57:47) anth_x: likely nothing's wrong with limbo. :-)
(18:58:48) anth_x: your path (%PATH? however Win32 defines such things) should include c:\inferno\Nt\386\bin or wherever you're sticking things.
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(18:59:01) anth_x: then ensure limbo's in there.
(18:59:28) anth_x: if not, 'mk install' it.
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(01:08:13) base2design: i just sent out a q on the inferno mailing list asking the same thing, but anyone here know what real commercial products exist that use inferno?
(01:08:56) base2design: i'd like to make a case study to help back up an architectural change for the product i work on
(01:09:08) base2design: and any leads would be most appreciated
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(07:40:24) anth_x: base2design: i don't think you're going to find a "product", but you can point to several projects.
(07:40:59) anth_x: it's used as a control system in HPC and industrial systems, online services, and whatever the heck brucee's doing - lighting control? it's hard to tell.
(07:41:34) GriffenJBS: :-) found a live one
(07:43:05) anth_x: briefly. just checking in before bed.
(07:43:55) GriffenJBS: can you point me to some help compiling inferno on Nt?
(07:44:21) anth_x: i responded to your earlier issues.
(07:44:35) anth_x: your path (%PATH? however Win32 defines such things) should include c:\inferno\Nt\386\bin or wherever you're sticking things.
(07:44:42) anth_x: then ensure limbo's in there.
(07:44:42) GriffenJBS: ? I must have been offline then
(07:44:48) anth_x: if not, 'mk install' it.
(07:44:59) GriffenJBS: it does have that directory in the path
(07:45:07) GriffenJBS: limbo doesn't exist in there
(07:45:38) anth_x: cd $INFERNO_ROOT\limbo ; mk install
(07:45:41) anth_x: (from memory)
(07:45:50) anth_x: or %INFERNO_ROOT or whatever. stupid Nt.
(07:46:12) GriffenJBS: mk install does mk all first, right?
(07:46:25) anth_x: should do.
(07:46:37) GriffenJBS: wow
(07:46:56) GriffenJBS: that single step has cost me 2 days... thank you
(07:47:11) anth_x: glad to be of service. :-)
(07:52:00) anth_x: no, bed time. good night, and good luck.
(07:52:10) GriffenJBS: good night
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