Conversation with #inferno at Tue Jan 11 22:17:51 2011 on powerman-asdf@irc.freenode.net (irc) (22:37:10) vsrinivas: mjl-: oh, are you still using libc_r on openbsd? (22:37:35) mjl-: hmm, what's that again? (22:37:41) vsrinivas: the userland libthread (22:38:19) mjl-: ah, yeah. well, inferno for openbsd isn't using it, but all pthread programs still do the userland hack with select & non-blocking... (22:38:23) vsrinivas: you can always synchronize with other primitives.... i've used pipes & select for this at one point.... (22:38:32) mjl-: it's really embarassing (22:38:48) mjl-: +r (22:39:32) mjl-: i'm betting on the thrsleep & thrwakeup calls that have been added. rthreads must happen at some point... i hope... (22:39:58) KBme left the room (quit: *.net *.split). (22:40:06) vsrinivas: how does kqueue look on openbsd? (22:40:16) vsrinivas: does it support EVFILT_USER and stuff? (22:40:23) vsrinivas: (if it does, you could prolly use that instead) (22:41:43) mjl-: i don't see EVFILT_USER mentioned in the kqueue man page, i do see other EVFILT's (22:42:42) KBme [~KBme@9angled-2-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net] entered the room. (22:42:48) mjl-: i was wondreing before whether kqueue could work. but i'm weary about using it: i remember a series of cvs commit some time (year or more) ago that mentioned "we need to unbreak more of this neglected kqueue stuff" (22:43:20) vsrinivas: okay; freebsd and darwin added EVFILT_USER about a year ago, iono if {net,open,dfly}bsd took it up. (22:43:39) mjl-: don't think so (23:16:45) yngve [~yngve@p4FE88538.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] entered the room. (23:27:43) yngve left the room (quit: Quit: leaving). (23:48:36) stewarj [~stewarj@97-80-161-40.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] entered the room. (23:49:44) stewarj: is there any prior art for hosted inferno returning resources to the OS (specifically memory and threads). (23:51:20) stewarj: i performed some benchmarks that created tons of "clones" on my linux environment that never (as far as I can tell) get relinquished. the only solution to empty out the process table was to stop/start emu. (23:51:29) stewarj: let me know if i'm missing anything. (23:51:52) stewarj: i did google searches for kproc / garbage collection and didn't get any leads (23:55:38) vsrinivas: stewarj: the os procs actually do exit from tramp()! if their call function is okay with that , anway. (23:55:42) vsrinivas: *anyway. (23:59:30) stewarj: hmm... these tests were on an ARM linux emu... let me see if something strange is going on in comparison to x86 linux emu... (23:59:49) Fish- left the room (quit: Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish). (00:00:30) vsrinivas: nope. vmachine() doesn't exit (00:00:37) vsrinivas: but the infrastructure is there for it to. (00:01:39) vsrinivas: all you need to do is to modify either vmachine to exit after a lot of idle time (00:01:44) vsrinivas: or release() or w/e. (00:04:50) stewarj left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (00:08:42) stewarj [~stewarj@97-80-161-40.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] entered the room. (00:08:45) stewarj: thanks, you've given me a few things to look at... i'm still getting my feet wet and have been moving from limbo level to "c" level poorly. (00:09:51) stewarj: what's the consensus on which inferno repo to check-out from? (00:18:09) vsrinivas: depends... inferno-os hg from VN is a solid start. (00:18:26) vsrinivas: there is an experimental inferno-npe repo that has some general hackery on google code too (01:11:17) mjl-: the inferno tarball from vitanuova's download page is useful too: it has the lucida fonts (01:24:21) anth_x: and, iirc, it's also a working hg repo. (01:26:58) stewarj: i started from the hg repo at inferno-os on google pages. (01:27:39) anth_x: you'll be missing fonts and some empty directories. (01:27:45) stewarj: just did a hg pull / update and saw charles commits from 1/10/2011 so i guess he's updating that farily frequently. (01:28:44) stewarj: i found the fonts somewhere else (escapes me at the moment) someone nicely put them in a tarball on their site. (01:30:06) stewarj: anyone had a look at brucee's ozinferno? i asked nicely for it years ago via rangboom but didn't hear anything back... (01:30:14) anth_x: they shouldn't. that violates the license. (01:32:24) stewarj: yeah... i won't re-distribute them either. i was just being lazy and someone enabled me to do so ;-) (01:43:30) GriffenJBS [~chatzilla@adsl-8-52-40.mia.bellsouth.net] entered the room. (01:58:44) mjl-: i once looked at ozinferno. it seemed to be a very old copy of inferno. definately not so interesting in the face of inferno-os. (01:58:52) mjl-: off to get some sleep o/~~ (02:12:57) KillerX [~anant@nat/mozilla/x-fnxdryqhdofgccmy] entered the room. (02:31:38) stewarj: nighty! (03:14:09) KillerX left the room (quit: Quit: KillerX). (04:36:28) hotaru2k3 left the room (quit: Disconnected by services). (04:36:33) hotaru2k3 [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/hotaru2k3] entered the room. (05:40:53) GriffenJBS: I'm looking for some help, inferno-os, I still have a lot to learn, but so far so good; inferno-ds, I can't get it to boot on hardware or emu, I did found one old release that starts in an emulator, then freezes (06:06:55) mycroftiv left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 276 seconds). (06:20:10) mycroftiv [~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net] entered the room. (06:45:17) uriel: 22:17 < vsrinivas> depends... inferno-os hg from VN is a solid start. (06:45:27) uriel: that is a rather funny deffinition of 'solid' you got there (06:45:30) uriel: 23:29 < anth_x> they shouldn't. that violates the license. (06:45:49) uriel: oh, noes! somebody violating a totally retarded idiotic and pointless license! (06:46:13) uriel: the question is why the hell does Inferno still depends on shit with such a totaly braindead license (06:49:01) anth_x: it doesn't "depend" on it. you can easily use inferno without them. the default setup is to use them because they are very high quality with good unicode coverage, and to many people that matters more than license religion. you're welcome to disagree. (07:00:05) vsrinivas: uriel: what was wrong with calling it solid? (07:31:48) robot12 [~KAZZhilki@proxy10.ts.fujitsu.com] entered the room. (07:39:38) uriel: anth_x: 'easily'?! hah, tons of stuff is *hardcoded* to use those fonts (07:39:55) uriel: if it was so easy, why wouldn't Inferno just at the very fucking least, include some other free fonts by default (07:40:30) uriel: anth_x: I don't give a crap about license religion, at least as much as you that seem concerned about somebody ignoring the stupid license (07:40:57) uriel: vsrinivas: what is wrong with calling mashed potattoes solid? (07:41:11) vsrinivas: hm, oh the fonts. (07:41:16) uriel: VN's inferno might be many things, 'solid' is not one of them (07:41:29) vsrinivas: is it just the fonts? are there other objections? (07:41:31) anth_x: because the people who maintain the repos you're looking at want you to use the higher quality fonts. if you care, make a repo including some converted, good fonts. (07:41:35) uriel: the font is just one more senseless and absurd annoyance (07:41:48) vsrinivas: what else is wrong? (07:42:00) uriel: anth_x: you mean they want to waste people's time, acme-sac got this (like many other things right) (07:42:34) vsrinivas: uriel: what else in acme-sac that vn's or inferno-npe don't get right? (i don't use acme-sac, wondering what i'm missing...) (07:42:42) anth_x: clearly they don't see getting higher-quality fonts as a waste of time. (07:42:46) uriel: I have yet to hear *anyone* complaining about not having to waste their time fetching random fonts from god knows where and installing them by hand to be able to use acme-sac (07:42:57) anth_x: and, of course, they're included with the distribution from VN, which is the recommended starting point. (07:43:04) vsrinivas: acme-sac uses the Vera fonts, yea? (07:43:59) uriel: yea, the recommended, outdated, and broken starting point, which brings us to the fantastic installation process... but anyway, arguing with true believers is pointless, I'm going to watch more SouthPark (07:44:22) uriel: vsrinivas: yes, but apparently that is 'low quality' and unacceptable to some people, strangely enough, I have never run into such people (07:45:30) vsrinivas: okay. (i've not used the VN inferno-os in a while, what's broken about its start? the -npe tree, you can generally clone, make mk, and mk install to build.... (at least on linux and dfly....)' (07:46:07) vsrinivas: um, i imagine the root window resizing is on the list? (07:50:41) robot12: uriel: morning :) (07:53:17) GriffenJBS: vsrinivas: I tried it last week with Nt, not so pleasant (07:53:53) vsrinivas: GriffenJBS: which one tree? what was wrong? (07:54:18) GriffenJBS: ie, the lib dir is missing, mk doesn't create it so no libs are created and everything else craps out (07:55:06) GriffenJBS: limbo doesn't build by default so everything that uses it also fails until after you build it by hand (07:55:29) vsrinivas: oh hmm. (07:55:34) GriffenJBS: those two details cost me almost a week (08:16:36) uriel: really, why does anyone waste their time with this stuff? you can get Go up and running in <5min (08:16:45) uriel: and it is actually maintained (09:00:50) Gegemon [~ynv@mx1.airis.ru] entered the room. (09:07:04) GriffenJBS left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 255 seconds). (09:18:40) j1m [~AndChat@213.87.74.184] entered the room. (10:41:10) bvalek2 [c3e41404@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.228.20.4] entered the room. (10:43:49) j1m left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 255 seconds). (11:04:38) vsrinivas left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds). (11:06:24) robot12 left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds). (11:18:08) robot12 [~KAZZhilki@proxy10.ts.fujitsu.com] entered the room. (11:25:38) mjl-: good morning all (11:25:52) mjl-: onward to another glorious day for inferno! (11:50:04) GriffenJBS [~chatzilla@adsl-8-52-40.mia.bellsouth.net] entered the room. (11:53:23) The account has disconnected and you are no longer in this chat. You will be automatically rejoined in the chat when the account reconnects.