Conversation with #inferno at Thu Dec 19 20:05:45 2013 on powerman@irc.freenode.net (irc)
(20:05:46) #inferno: Topic for #inferno set by mennis at 17:30:16 on 12/28/09
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(21:14:59) anth_r: anyone here running emu on linux/arm?
(21:21:05) leetspete: anth_r: Yep.
(21:21:28) anth_r: what platform? what distro? any major issues to note?
(21:22:36) leetspete: It's an Efika MX, hard float, ARM9 (I think; can't get to it at the moment).
(21:23:13) leetspete: The distro's CRUX on one of them, Debian on two others, and one of them is broken and I forget what's on it. :)
(21:23:47) leetspete: I didn't run into anything particularly troubling except that I had to disable JIT.
(21:23:50) anth_r: ☺
(21:23:57) leetspete: (And patch charon.)
(21:24:17) leetspete: And the CRUX one, actually that's running my patched emu to let it use SDL as the display.
(21:24:17) anth_r: that should be fine for me. i'm just passing some data along.
(21:24:42) anth_r: i won't need charon (or, really, graphics at all, but i'm curious what you had to do to charon)
(21:25:35) leetspete: It was very minor, just make it so that the Img module didn't require JIT to load.
(21:25:48) leetspete: I was talking about that in here with, uh, I forget who.
(21:26:13) anth_r: interesting. it seems broken that anything would require jit. did you attempt to get that accepted upstream?
(21:27:01) leetspete: I didn't, but I'd be happy to.  I'll shoot an email to the list a little later today.
(21:27:17) leetspete: I think I recall someone from the mailing list having a patch for JIT (ARM/Thumb differences in calling conventions, I believe) but I have not applied it, because I haven't yet noticed a performance problem.
(21:27:56) leetspete: Oh, right, that was for Hellaphone, I think.  They're just...doing their own thing.  :)
(21:28:06) leetspete: What platform are you on?
(21:28:17) leetspete: A Pi or something?
(21:30:36) anth_r: no. i forget what it's called. imx-6? that's from memory.
(21:30:45) anth_r: i'm not on it at all yet, but thats the deployment target.
(21:30:55) leetspete: Ah, ah, yeah.  That's the new one, it's pretty slick.
(21:31:54) anth_r: i was impressed with the capabilities (especially for the price), but i don't have one in my hands to play with yet.
(21:32:52) leetspete: If you get anxious, there's an $89 quad-core board, pretty nice.  Let me find the link (I think I heard about it on 9fans, actually)...
(21:33:44) leetspete: Yeah:   Quad-core 1.7GHz, 2GB RAM, HDMI.  http://hardkernel.com/main/main.php
(21:36:51) anth_r: nice. i think i'll wait for the one someone's going to buy me, though. i can develop on whatever for now.
(21:37:20) anth_r: i need to take a look at that DB stuff to figure out how much of this project i can do in inferno, first.
(21:39:12) leetspete: Awesome.
(21:45:50) anth_r: also, i have to stop arguing with people on 9fans. time to close that window for a bit and get back to work.
(21:47:12) leetspete: haha, There's been some bait posted there.
(21:47:44) anth_r: yeah, and i bit today, sadly.
(21:47:47) anth_r: i feel dirty.
(21:47:50) leetspete: heh
(21:48:07) anth_r: well, also, i haven't showered today. maybe that's it.
(21:50:50) leetspete: The Inferno mailing list, due to hyperinactivity, is immune to flames.
(21:52:02) leetspete: I'm tempted to try to prove this, but I'll abstain.
(21:58:59) sandbender1512: mailing list is beyong hyperinactive
(21:59:11) sandbender1512: I think it's literally dead (non-functional)
(21:59:19) sandbender1512: I've tried multiple times recently to sign up - no dice
(21:59:20) anth_r: no, there's stuff.
(21:59:30) anth_r: mail charles if you're having issues.
(21:59:51) sandbender1512: I don't have/can't find his email address
(22:00:40) leetspete: charles.forsyth@gmail.com
(22:01:19) sandbender1512: gracias!
(22:17:42) loz2: are you talking about inferno-list@vitanuova.com ? 
(22:23:03) sandbender1512: loz2: yes
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(02:07:27) anth_r: wow. graphics perfomanc in emu on my plan 9 pi is... not snappy.
(02:09:01) leetspete: anth_r: I have that problem with emu on Plan 9 in general...is it slower than that?
(02:09:40) anth_r: yeah, but then graphics performance on the pi is not very good to start with.
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(03:07:15) anth_r: powerman, was it you who'd done the mkfiles that worked both inside and outside inferno?
(03:07:38) powerman: anth_r: yeah, guilty
(03:08:16) powerman: http://code.google.com/p/inferno-opt-mkfiles/
(03:09:53) anth_r: oh right, i forgot you'd done some /opt stuff, too.
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(23:46:42) powerman: btw, is it possible to mount 9P in windows?
(23:47:08) anth_r: step 1: run emu. :-)
(23:47:12) powerman: and?
(23:47:33) anth_r: mount it within inferno. probably not what you want.
(23:47:35) powerman: how to get 9P-exported fs available to windows native apps as network drive?
(23:47:53) anth_r: yeah. i know of no way to do that directly.
(23:48:00) qrstuv: how did rangboom do it?
(23:48:03) anth_r: there is a 9p-cifs bridge.
(23:48:19) anth_r: qrstuv: they wrote their own. but they didn't share.
(23:48:36) powerman: sounds acceptable, is it available?
(23:49:13) anth_r: not really. i believe rangboom's suspended operations. you might email brucee or skip.
(23:51:41) powerman: google says plan9 has aquarela and cifsd… if they're stable, it may be ease to convert them to limbo…
(00:00:03) powerman: probably ftp server will be much simpler than cifs and windows should be able to mount ftp…?
(00:04:46) powerman: mjl usually write this sort of software… yep! https://bitbucket.org/mjl/ftpsrv
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(00:06:11) powerman: and one more: https://bitbucket.org/mjl/nfssrv
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(01:16:15) fosap2: I unfortunatly never find the time to familiarize with inferno and i ran into a problem. I'm trying to implement a proxy pattern, but i think I'm doing something seriously wrong.
(01:16:16) fosap2: http://pastebin.com/HnNVvyp0
(01:17:41) fosap2: I think i want to implement a OOP pattern that does not work in Limbo.
(01:18:11) qrstuv: do you know about wmexport and wmimport?
(01:23:08) fosap2: No, I didn't
(01:23:53) fosap2: Ok, that seems to answer my second question
(01:25:51) fosap2: I guess operating on files is always the prefered option.
(01:27:02) fosap2: Rather than trying to pass my personal Limbo modules to a programm i should rather write a file-server, right?
(01:27:57) qrstuv: who knows
(01:28:00) qrstuv: just follow your heart
(01:30:08) fosap2: Say I want to write a fuzzer that gives random mouseclicks. (I know this does not make much sense, but anyway)
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(01:31:48) fosap2: I guess I could wirte my down Drawcontext and pass that to the programm, or i could write something that I bind to /dev/pointer.
(01:32:58) fosap2: It seems the latter is more elegant.
(01:33:04) qrstuv: i don't actually have any idea how inferno graphics works
(01:34:06) fosap2: More general:
(01:36:15) fosap2: Exposing the api as filesystem seems better than passing around Limbo "objects" (or how instances of adt are called). 
(01:37:06) qrstuv: generalizations are dumb
(01:37:18) fosap2: always? :P
(01:37:28) fosap2: Ok
(01:37:28) qrstuv: just read the code and do whatever creates the least work for your lazy ass
(01:38:20) qrstuv: there's no inferno design pattern with all the answers
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(21:58:57) yshurik2: powerman: http://code.google.com/p/ninefs/
(21:59:37) powerman: yshurik2: thanks!
(22:00:14) yshurik2: powerman: but "auth" is plan9 only supported as I remember, not inferno, so share it as free-access
(22:06:07) yshurik2: btw: there is also good project diod (http://code.google.com/p/diod/) to share linux resources over 9p
(22:19:28) powerman: yshurik2: my head is probably too busy with current work, but I can't get the point of diod
(22:20:03) powerman: it let us to export some linux fs using 9P to… mount it again on another linux
(22:20:41) powerman: so, as result we lose all caching, get high latency and… what we win?
(22:27:01) powerman: ah, ok, I get it. it export fs with potentially unusual semantics related to caching, so these fs works correctly on server where they're mounted, but not guaranteed to work correctly if they'll be exported over NFS/CIFS - but 9P is safe to use here
(22:56:14) yshurik2: yep, kind of
(22:57:02) yshurik2: but also as tool just for exporting
(23:03:03) powerman: inferno able to mount .L?
(00:00:10) yshurik2: not, but I guess there were a option to share it without .L (at least a year ago when I had a look at that project)
(00:00:24) yshurik2: I guess I tested it to mount from inferno
(00:04:58) yshurik2: just had quick look, looks like diod now is solely .L
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(11:39:42) qrstuv: has anyone already written an inflogin client for plan 9?
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