Conversation with #inferno at Wed Jan 29 14:34:11 2014 on powerman@irc.freenode.net (irc)
(14:34:11) #inferno: Topic for #inferno set by mennis at 17:30:16 on 12/28/09
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(18:46:18) anth_r: i'm playing around with maht's postgres module, and not having very good results. anyone here used it?
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(21:33:24) yshurik: hi all
(21:36:57) leetspete1: Hi!
(22:15:45) yshurik: What's up? :)
(22:16:50) leetspete1: I'm building out our company's blog, since we just have to dumb one-page site.  It's generated by sh(1), so it's been fun to write.
(22:17:40) leetspete1: Not much going on other than that.  Some guy named Rui Carmo emailed me, we've been poking at libtk.  I made the scroll bars black:  an achievement of sorts?
(22:19:25) yshurik: surely inferno should have black ui 
(22:20:46) leetspete1: In this case, it's just the default foreground, but adjusting color.c, we could make the defaults black and red.
(22:20:50) leetspete1: heh
(22:21:13) yshurik: actually I think to start some pet project to test some new ideas about GUI-ng
(22:21:14) leetspete1: So much easier on the eyes, though, than the one-pixel bevel with the scrollbar and the background the same color.
(22:22:56) leetspete1: What ideas?  I'd be interested in helping out for certain.
(22:23:38) yshurik: I have some feeling of changing some very fundamental ideas
(22:24:02) yshurik: and to experiment with using Inferno as toy platform
(22:24:44) yshurik: it all started with basement of "window", but I guess it is wrong
(22:25:01) leetspete1: Interesting.
(22:25:05) leetspete1: Anyone know, by the way, if there's an Inferno program for editing these .bit files?
(22:25:17) leetspete1: I suspect that there is one for Plan 9.
(22:25:39) yshurik: I didn't play with .bit files yet
(22:26:10) yshurik: but may have a look when start some lab about gui on inferno-rpi
(22:26:55) leetspete1: Cool.  I figure it's probably documented somewhere in the Plan 9 man pages.
(22:28:09) yshurik: regarding "window" - just have a look at your desktop: you have a lot of windows or tabs which have no tools to communicate each-other or to reformulate, the desktop system use you as monkey to make windows to communicate each other
(22:29:12) leetspete1: I like what you're saying, here.
(22:30:03) yshurik: it is very different to console where you can make almost every utility to be file-server(9p) or to use pipes etc
(22:31:34) yshurik: so any "wm" which have no tools to connect different windows by channels is way to hell :)
(22:33:03) yshurik: well, even acme need a monkey on other side of display :)
(22:39:42) yshurik: another idea is "zooms" instead of "windows"
(22:40:28) leetspete1: I think I've heard that word in this context before. Canon Cat or something like that.
(22:41:15) yshurik: correct
(22:41:39) yshurik: the idea was in a book describing canon cat etc
(22:42:10) yshurik: so my current thoughts are "zooms"+"channels" or so, but I need experiments
(22:44:39) yshurik: whole filesystem is actually "zooms": folders+files
(22:46:59) leetspete1: Interesting!
(22:47:44) leetspete1: The Canon Cat was done in Forth, was it not?  I forget.
(22:49:56) yshurik: I do not remember
(22:50:33) yshurik: but I had experience with forth too, it was fun
(22:53:25) yshurik: leetspete1: have you seen "drakon" visual language?
(22:54:12) leetspete1: Forth is definitely a fun language.  I haven't seen Drakon, looking it up now.
(22:54:41) yshurik: http://drakon-editor.sourceforge.net/DRAKON.pdf
(22:54:47) yshurik: just start with this one
(22:55:08) leetspete1: Ah, I think I've seen this.  M. Simoni is always talking about GUI languages, I think I've heard of it by reading his blog.
(22:58:23) yshurik: it has also formalized "channels" (as they are in limbo or go) so it can be used for these languages
(22:58:32) yshurik: and probably very eficient
(23:00:00) leetspete1: Reading the PDF.  Interesting stuff.
(23:05:38) yshurik: all pdfs: http://drakon-editor.sourceforge.net/language.html
(23:06:03) yshurik: part2 is about parallel programming
(23:18:43) leetspete1: "Is the person listening?" 
(23:18:53) leetspete1: 'No' → "Tell them to go to hell."
(23:18:57) leetspete1: I like this PDF.
(23:19:01) yshurik: :)
(23:19:59) leetspete1: Actually looks like a really thoughtful design.
(23:26:12) yshurik: yep, space industry requires very good designed tools
(23:28:26) yshurik: it is intensionally very formalized to make you to read complicated algorithms in seconds
(23:30:19) yshurik: to train your eyes :)
(23:31:08) leetspete1: Lunch time.  Going to finish up reading this stuff, though, it's interesting.
(23:34:01) yshurik: there was a "lunch" diagram on page 27, so you can follow it to test :)
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